Comedian explains why she organized Amanda Knox comedy show fundraiser

By | February 1, 2010 at 3:04 pm | 1,218 comments | News | Tags: ,

Renee Perrault

Comedian Renee Perrault organized a comedy benefit for convicted murderer Amanda Knox, whom many people feel was not given a fair trial.

Last week, Punchline Magazine posted a news post on about a comedy fundraiser that was held in Seattle for Amanda Knox, the 22-year-old American college student convicted in Italy of murdering her British roommate. Due to the outcry of fairness, decency, guilt and innocence that this conversation inspired, we decided to contact Renee Perrault, the comedian who organized the event. Here’s what Perrault had to say about the fundraiser, the Knoxes, and the controversy surrounding the court case and guilty verdict.

What prompted you to organize a comedy event, in specific, on Amanda Knox’s behalf?
I have been doing stand-up comedy for three years. I’m in a comedy group and we have done fundraising for Gilda’s Club, Susan B. Komen, breast cancer, MS and Rise N’ Shine for AIDS. A comedy event is something I know how to do and have had success with. We have been criticized for doing a comedy show and people actually suggested or blogged that we were going to make fun of Meredith Kercher and her family.  That couldn’t have been farther from the truth. Our intent was to entertain,  we did not make jokes about Italy, or any mention of the trial or the Kercher family. The Kercher family has our deepest sympathies. We were just raising money for a cause we believe in.

What did you hope to accomplish with it? Do you feel you met your goals?

My goal was to help the Knox family and raise money for Amanda’s Defense Fund.  Yes, that goal was met. We brought people together, entertained them and raised money.

I read online that you’re a friend of the Knoxes. How long have you been acquainted with them? Did they ask you to do this, or did you come up with the idea?

I worked with Curt at Macy’s in the 1980’s when  we were still known as The Bon Marche. In those days, before mergers and downsizing, we actually had time for coffee breaks and lunch. There was a group of us that did just that– coffee and lunches; we were work friends. There are people in your life that come and go, sometimes you don’t see them for years but when you do, the friendship is still there. I hadn’t seen Curt in a few years but had followed the trial. It was so hard to watch all of the negative publicity and when the verdict was announced it was just devastating to hear. I approached the Knox family with the idea of a fundraiser. As I said, comedy is what I do now….I really couldn’t think of a better way to raise money. I have gotten to know quite a few local northwest comics and every single one that I approached immediately wanted to be part of the show. The other comics in the show included Xung Lam, John Gardner, Geoff Lott and Billy Wayne Davis.

Amanda Knox

Amanda Knox

Given the notoriety of the situation, could you tell me something about the Knox family and Amanda that the public might not know?
After months of watching the TV and newspaper coverage I have come to realize that the Knox family is incredibly brave and have put everything on the line to help their daughter, granddaughter, sister, niece, cousin. The entire family, and remember, Amanda’s parents are divorced, have all come together. There is also another layer of “step” family that is working just as hard. We’re always hearing about dysfunctional families, this family has come together and is an example of what a “modern” family is made up of. I don’t know Amanda but have come to know her through the emails her family send to supporters, detailing their visits with her.  I think she has demonstrated bravery under constant criticism.

What do you have to say to those out there who believe that Amanda is guilty and received a fair trial?
People are always going to have their opinions. There has been so much in the media: some right, some wrong and some just total sensationalism. Then there are the crazy bloggers who contribute, anonymously of course, all sorts of wrong facts to add fuel to the fire. My opinion is that the evidence presented at the trial was circumstantial at best. If I [say]say all the things that I believe were wrong with the trial, it will release a shit-storm of blogging from the crazy people. I will just say, I have followed the case, and I am convinced, along with many many other people, that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent and the true murderer has been convicted.  I believe the next trial will refute whatever findings are presented by the jury.

About the Author

Emma Kat Richardson

Emma Kat Richardson is a Detroit native who received her BA in professional writing and women and gender studies from Elizabethtown College in 2008. Her journalism and feature writing has been published in Alternative Press, Bitch, Punchline Magazine, Bookslut, and Real Detroit Weekly.

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  • harryrag

    The English translation of the Italian Supreme Court report which explains why Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito’s acquittals were annulled can be downloaded from the Perugia Murder File website:

    http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=599

  • Anonymous

    1215 comments.  I bet this magazine has never seen anything like this before. 

  • Anonymous

    Hi Posterity old buddy! It is 3rd October 2011 and Amanda Knox has just been completely exonerated, acquitted and released from prison by an Appeal court which has completely overturned the case. See ya!

  • John Winters

    It looks like now that everyone who usually comments on this blog has joined the subsects of Friends of Amanda and has taken their interaction to those locations, there is nothing more to say here. However, surely as this blog is called ”Punchline,” there should BE a punchline now that we’ve come to a conclusive point.
    But unfortunately there is no punchline to this case. Certainly not for poor Meredith. But also not for Amanda Knox. And anyone who has an ounce of decency or compassion in their heart will easily see that Amanda Knox, whose life up to November 2007 had been something of a whirlwind roller coaster, had no way of combatting the sudden seriousness of the situation she found herself in at that time. Even well into 2009, her spirits had not been extinguished and her faith in the system continued to maintain her at altitude. Not until the first really heavy blow, the sentencing in December 2009, did Amanda look like keeling. Now as the full impact of her predicament slowly begins to dawn on Amanda, we see her in her true colours for the first time: a gentle, mild-mannered young lady who cares only about her family, parents and sisters. A very loving person whose virtues in this respect have already been extoled by her schools. She is so obviously not a murderer or anything like it. We should all pray hard that a more conscientious mindset governs her appeal proceedings in November and she receives the justice she deserves, exoneration and release.
    Thank you for taking time to hear our plea on her behalf. If as we intended, you have been persuaded to share our opinion, please join us at injusticeinperugia.com

  • Mary H.

    Well, I’ve looked at it, John, but it seemed like you guys are really holding down the fort pretty well! Do you also post on the View From Wilmington? I will look around and see if I am “needed” anywhere. ;) the examiner sure went to hell with elephantiasis, didn’t it?

  • John Winters

    Mary H
    Why haven’t you joined Injustice in Perugia? Me and Billy and PhanuelB are all on there.

  • Mary H.

    Ooh, I hope not, John. That would make me almost as nutty as some of the guiltes — if such a thing is possible!

  • John Winters

    Mary H, you tricky cat. Something’s just occurred to me. You didn’t happen to be looking in a mirror when you saw Candace Dempsey at the booklaunch did you?

  • Mary H.

    Will do, billy. LOL, John. :)

  • John Winters

    That might explain it Mary. I did catch one post at least which had my name on it and said something extremely puerile about Amanda and Raffaele being guilty. There are probably others which I’ve missed. I haven’t caught them doing this anywhere else except maybe fairly harmlessly on the Examiner.

    The mobster scenario is engaging. Course it only takes a little digging in the garden at this guy’s place to confirm his story. It would be rather like a dream come true if they did find the knife and then forensically proved it was the murder weapon. If this happened, I would go to the nearest multi-storey and jump off the roof because I know damned well that I’d fly like a bird at that moment!!

  • billyryan

    mary h john winters i post on the “injusticeinperugia” blog there is one poster there called “kevad”he is a lawyer from california he has read the motivations and the appeal documents submitted by amanda and raffaela.his posts are excellant.raffaela appeal chalanges the court belief that his dna is on the braclasp,if kevad and raffaela lawyers are right (and i suspect they are)the evidence of raffaela on the braclasp is the same as the luminal footprint, the cleanup, calling the carabinaire only after the postal police arrived,all lies.failure by the prosecution to test hairs under meridiths finger nails and a semen stain on a pillow that was found under merridiths hips is indicitive of a prosecution that was determined to avoid getting to the truth at all costs

    the next time that ye have a bit of time mary h john winters go and read kevads posts on injusticeinperugia

  • Mary H.

    Hmm, odd. As it happens, I saw someone write something the other day about you, saying there is a good John Winters and a bad John Winters, and the one on the Seattle Times was the bad one. Was it you or is someone impersonating you there? How about changing your name just to be on the safe sid?

    Have you guys seen this, just out:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1285226/Amanda-Knox-innocent-brother-killed-Meredith-Kercher-claims-Mafia-supergrass.html

    Is such a thing possible? Even if it is a hoax, it might still work, since the Italians only care about drama, not the truth.

    By the way, I met Candace Dempsey last night at one of her book signings in Seattle. Nice to know she and I are not the same person after all! :)

  • John Winters

    That’s great Mary, thanks. I’ve already signed up for ”the cause” and am thinking of something to write to Amanda that would be inspirational in the right way.

    I don’t know where where is. I’m posting on any site that will take me at the moment. The Seattle Times are refusing to print my posts because they say I broke the agreement I made with them not to say anything slanderous about anyone.

    Made me kind of proud of meself.

  • Mary H.

    I sure hope you’re right, billy. Someone name Malkmus posted this on JREF today:

    “On a side note, I was very surprised this morning to find that one of my co-workers was a student at the same University as Amanda and lived in Perugia back in the nineties. He has a passing knowledge of the case, and doesn’t have a personal opinion on her guilt or innocence. However, it is his opinion that she doesn’t have a chance with any of her appeals and that the cards were stacked against her from the beginning, which he bases on a rather negative perception of Perugian LE, the press, and the Italian judicial system overall. I only mention this last part to show that it isn’t just armchair critics who have never been to Italy who think this.”

    Pretty discouraging.

    I think it says on that Facebook cause page that Amanda has a computer for her studies.

    I have missed where oh where, too. Where have you guys been posting? I am on JREF and a little on the West Seattle Herald.

  • billyryan

    greetings to mary h and john winters where is “where oh where” posting these days.like you i have studied the pictures of amanda at her last hearing.maybe she looks sad but she looks as beautiful as ever.
    frank sfarzo on his latest blog is again talking about the possibility of amanda’s detension been reduced to house arrest as is often the case in italy,whatever judge is appointed to the appeal will make that decision
    what a boost it would give us all if amanda was given some sort release prior to the appeal where she would have access to a computer, we could send her messages of support,she could reply,i have a very deep feeling at the moment that something good is about to happen

  • Mary H.

    Hi John ~ I know what you mean. I felt so sad looking at those pictures because SHE looks so sad. She has learned the ways of the world in an unfair and unecessarily difficult way. I hope she can recover without a lifetime of depression.

    I think she would welcome anything she receives. A friend of hers, Kelly Brodbeck, will forward (or print out) e-mails to her. His address is:

    kellybrodbeck@comcast.net

    He also runs this cause page for Amanda on Facebook: http://www.causes.com/causes/234623

    He prints parts of letters from Amanda and you can post comments to her that she has access to.

  • John Winters

    Thank you Mary. However, seeing Amanda looking so wistful today has depressed the hell out of me…..do you think we should write to her? Please let me know what you think.

  • Mary H.

    John, you made some great posts on Bill Edelblute’s page.

  • billyryan

    john winters mary w oh w go immediatly to injusticeinperugia and listen to frank shiers interviewing steve moore, i said before and i say it again steve moore should be put on every radio program on every tv talk show possible,there is an election coming up in the us later this year it is a basic human instinct to rescue a innocent young girl in distress i know the lunatic fringe represented by perer quinnell psyco-al are from their perspective doing a good job on the net but they cannot get on any responsable tv or radio program and that is where the support of the american public will be won

  • John Winters

    Doc Hennessy! I can’t believe it! I remember him from a ding-dong battle on the British Guardian site that confirmed in my mind that Doc was devoid of sound judgement but definitely a master of psychobabble. Imagine getting stuck overnight in an elevator with that guy. What’s that they say about going grey overnight? Or his school report. I can see some beleaguered teacher in the UK who usually writes for his pupils ”could do better” commenting in Doc’s case simply: ”Sorry, I’m speechless!”

  • Mary H.

    John, I don’t think that’s Al. If you go to The Daily Beast and read the comments after Barbie’s excerpts from her book, you will find similar paragraphs (and paragraphs and paragraphs) written by a person named DocHennessy, who writes absolute BOOKS about Amanda and Raffaele, in concepts and a manner similar to Olio’s crapola on the examiner. Also, Olio/DocHennessy is British and Al, as we all know, is Italian (albeit living in California). Olio a/k/a Doc is a hundred times nuttier than Al — if such a thing is possible.

    “…but at least you don’t have to beg Fred Flintstone or someone like that just to get on there.” LOL!

  • John Winters

    I’ve gone back to the Examiner because at least I can get on there quite easily without Lisa Simpson putting the block on me. I know everyone disparages the Examiner because they think the article writing is a bit wonky, but at least you don’t have to beg Fred Flintstone or someone like that just to get on there. Recently, Al Fhak aka ”Oilo something exteremely puerile” has written about 2000 words on narcissism and it’s been very entertaining waiting for him to finish before mildly ignoring what he’s written and posting something about Frank Sfarzo’s interview of the sadist, Commodi.

  • where oh where?

    Anything much going on? I’ve been working on our catalog photo shoot for the past few days and feel all out of touch.

    Is there anything more on the slander trial? Where is everyone posting these days? I glanced at jref and Injustice but the discussions seem to be almost the same as last weeks and the week before. I always hope that something new and really positive has come to light.

  • where oh where?

    Vendetta, yes, but I think many of us know it goes beyond that. Everyday this trial goes on it’s garnering ever more negative attention worldwide, a circumstance I think mignini never contemplated until it happened. Due to his circumstances, his own trial and subsequent conviction, he is in a rather precarious position. Therefore, he must, at all costs. assert his control over any and all proceedings and all involved.

    I’m waiting for the day, and I hope it comes soon, when mignini begins to loose control over the case. Perhaps then things will begin to shake loose and eventually break wide open and we’ll learn what was really going on over there.

  • Mary H.

    “for whatever reason the italians have a vendetta against amanda knox and raffaela is just collateral damage.”

    Very true.

  • billyryan

    where oh where i read the report on amanda’s upcoming trial for slander.i think this could be a publicity nightmare for the prosecution. if mignini gets to be the prosecuter as he wants to be i think it will focus the media attension on mignini’s conviction for abuse of power like the main trial never could also on the failure to tape the interogations or the destroying of them afterwards,of course all of this will mean nothing if the judge in this case is as biased as all of the judges have been up to now

    for whatever reason the italians have a vendetta against amanda knox and raffaela is just collateral damage.this trial will show the dept of the vendetta against amanda knox

  • where oh where?

    Here is a video of a news cast on the “ridiculous case against Amanda Knox” site:

    http://knoxarchives.blogspot.com/

    It was posted yesterday. I also read that the case against Raffaele’s family comes up in June. I think I read that on pmf when went I went over earlier today.

  • billyryan

    where oh where at the time of frank sfarzo article no decision had been taken on wheather or not to proceed and i read nothing since,where did you read that it is going ahead in june with mignini as prosecuter

  • Mary_H

    LOL, John! Love your transcript of Stefanoni’s testimony. Very funny.

    You’re right about PMF’s attitude, Where. The main thing I noticed about that testimony was that Amanda kept getting interrupted — as also happened a lot during the trial. These judges don’t appear to be very good at listening.

  • where oh where?

    You know, John, the way the pmf’ers dissect every little word of Amanda’s and then interpret the words to suit their own theories is truly hateful and ridiculously meaningless. I haven’t been going over to pmf much lately but I did this afternoon just in time to see michael/fulcanelli write “F*ck Bruce” (Fisher). He left in the “u”. I guess it’s alright for the moderators to use bad language, just not the weenies. It must be a case of “do what I say, not as I do”.

  • where oh where?

    Amanda’s slander trial starts in June with mignini as prosecutor. I’m truly heart sick. She could get up to six more years. Did you read Frank’s take on this action?

    http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-proceedings-against-amanda-knox.html

    There was no investigation according to his interview with prosecutor comodi. Just another joke of a law with clowns as prosecutors.

  • John Winters

    I really felt I had to share this twaddle from PMF with you even though I am also of the opinion that there should be a law against posting things like this on the internet:

    Referring to a photograph of a key retained in the lock of the cupboard door in amanda’s room:

    (Everything from this point is directly quoted from PMF)

    ”Amanda testified in court that she did not have a key to her bedroom, and that she never had such a key. Your photograph is certainly interesting, but I think that the apparent profile of a key in her door lock is not the image of a key. Or, if it is a key, maybe the owner of the cottage provided police with keys????

    I went back to look at the transcript:-

    “AK: No. They just gave me a key to the house and said “This is yours.”

    GCM: Who gave you the keys to the house?

    AK: Laura.

    GCM: So these keys were to the main door of the house –

    AK: Yes, the entrance door, and –

    GCM: — and to your room. Two keys.

    AK: — oh, in fact –

    GCM: Excuse me, two keys?

    AK: No. I didn’t have a key to my room. I think there was one once, but I never locked it, so the key I had with me was only for the entrance door.

    GCM: The main door.

    AK: Yes.

    GCM: Of your room, no.

    AK: No.”

    It reads like Amanda was going to say she had a key to her room and then changed her mind !! Maybe she realised or remembered that her room key also opened Merediths room and changed her answer…there is a bit of “I think there was one once..” Amanda’s style of adding detail that is not asked for as she has done on many occasions.”

  • John Winters

    Oh God, no, correction, come next week and more of Mignini’s abuse, it’ll be 32 years.
    Apparently, Steffanoni is being called as a witness. She’s scheduled to make a contribution thus:

    Mignini: How do you know Miss Knox was not experiencing difficulties during this interview?

    Steff: ”By the way she was screaming.”

    Mignini’s inept assistant: ”Do you have these screams on tape?”

    Steff: ”Er, No.”

    Inept: ”Why not?”

    Steff: ”We lost the tapes.”

    Inept (really warming to his theme): ”Do you mean to tell this court that you are bringing a slander case against a suspect accused of libelling the police during the course of an interview the recordings of which have been lost by you, the suspect’s accusers?”

    Mignini stepping in: ”Yes, yes alright, never mind about that….”

    Inept, getting above himself: ”M’lud…”

    Micheli, who had nodded off, suddenly comes round: ”Guilty! Amanda Knux is guilty!”

    FOA, unable to comprehend the workings of Hades, collectively burst into tears.

  • Mary H.

    Thank you, Where, for your kind words. One of jref’s assets is that other posters can send you private messages, and today one of them sent me one saying that Amanda did not actually see her lawyer until the 8th, which pretty much dismantles a big part of the argument that lawyer was putting forth in his piece on tjmk.

    Great take on Stefanoni, billy; I completely agree. So many of the things the Italians do seem to be so ingrained, they take them for granted as a way of life and don’t even think of them as corruption. The whole tradition of being able to try every case three times has got to affect how dedicated they are to getting things right in the first trial — like, not dedicated at all.

  • John Winters

    Patrizia Steffanoni said in court!! (In answer to the question, ”How do you know it was blood?”) ”By its color.”

    As a netballer in her youth, Steffanoni was known to ”throw the ball up that way and see what happens…”

    Also, her math teacher noted her propensity to frequently use the ”trial and error method” in preference to conventional forms of calculation.

    That’s okay if you take up a career serving Big Macs at McDonalds. Not good enough when you’re stealing 26 years of a young girl’s life however!

  • where oh where?

    Yeah, Mary, I noticed that pack mentality, too. A self styled alpha whistles over on pmf and here comes the trained weenies to back ‘um up.

    John and Billyryan, have you read the newest article touted by tjmk and pmf? It’s more than ridiculous. Heres the link: http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

    Mary just did a great rebuttal on jref:
    http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161229&page=302

    It’s post #12069 at 3:25 today.

    If all Italians reason like this, what chance does Amanda have of getting out of this predicament? Well, I know all don’t, Frank certainly doesn’t reason like this, but it is truly disheartening. It’s like every crime has a machiavellian mastermind pulling all the strings and I can’t help thinking this case will go the way of the “Monster of Florence” debacle.

    BillyRyan, just imagine the Perugian judges and prosecutors as mirror images of al-fake. Poor Amanda.

  • billyryan

    john winters it also shows the capacity of a criminal with the power of a prosecuter to convict innocent defendants.
    i believe stefanoni and mignini and edgardo giobbi conspired together to convict amanda and raffaela,of the three i think stefanoni will find it the hardest to cover her tracts.the appeal court will surely order for the braclasp to be tested by an independant lab,and for the electronic data that underlies the dna test results on the knife blade to be released.i suspect that patrizia is not sleeping any more comfertably than amanda and raffaela

  • John Winters

    Steve Moore has given us another invaluable lesson in a subject I personally know precious little about. Steve’s instruction and observations are absolute gold-dust. You can actually see and feel the truth of the situation in the cottage the morning after, and the terrible events the previous evening, tangibly unfolding before us with Steve’s methodical elucidation – and crucially, Amanda’s absence from those events. We are forever beholden to him.

  • Mary H.

    Where oh where, I think everyone on PMF — or, I should say every guilter in general — is a two-faced hypocrite. I noticed from the very first time I started posting over a year ago on the Seattle Times, that they invariably accuse Amanda’s supporters of doing exactly what they themselves are doing. It’s uncanny. It’s like “projection” is their middle name.

    Two other traits I have noticed about the guilters:

    - They travel in packs
    - They believe their opinions are facts, unequivocally

    The ridiculing they do of other people on PMF is so strange — I can’t believe they’re not ashamed of it.

  • where oh where?

    Mary, my first thought about bard/montmoency was, that two faced bitch! Actually it was that GD two faced bitch! (My dad would never cuss in front of us kids, so the GD in caps was his voice in my head, standing for, of course god damned.) I’m usually not a name caller, but sometimes it does feel good to call one like I see it.

    But jref is becoming such a circular place to visit, like what goes around, comes around, and around, and around. I do occasionally learn something new, however, so I continue to read.

    Thanks, BillyRyan, I read Steve Moore’s luminol article. Having an ex-FBI agent talk about luminol and it’s uses confirms what other scientist have said about luminol being a tool, not direct evidence.

  • where oh where?

    BillyRyan, I hope the defense has a better witness than aviello. I hope we find out soon who that witness is. I also fervently hope that the defense gets the rest of the files on the DNA evidence. There must really be some information in them that the prosecution doesn’t want known. What are they hiding?

  • Mary H.

    About Rudy not locking the door — it looks like the Machine said it first, then Fulcanelli picked it up from him, then stilicho picked it up from Fulcanelli. Neither of the last two can bear to think their mentor betrayed them.

    I got a kick out of this post by The Bard, a/k/a Montmorency, the one who chastised me at GREAT length for saying the Italian police were attracted to Amanda, essentially saying that such a thing was not possible and I was insulting the men to even suggest it:

    “Poor Amanda seems to have cornered the market in creepy middle-aged men who love to be near her, looking at her bum, holding her hand, touching her face, writing long paeans to her…it’s all getting a bit distasteful…”

  • Mary H.

    where oh where? said

    am May 11 2010 @ 6:21 pm

    “Hey, Mary, keep yanking their chain! I’m sure the boys ran off to pmf to report.”

    Could you believe that display, Where? Fulcanelli refusing even to try it?

  • Mary H.

    I laugh out loud every time I read “al-sack-ofyouseless dogshite.” I can’t believe Al is still going on about sheep. :D

  • Mary H.

    Thanks, billy, I just read it. Oh, I am going to have to check on you and Al on injustice. We had a bit of a knock-down drag-out on JREF today, too.

  • billyryan

    where oh where,mary h john winters,steve moore has his artical up on luminol on injusticeinperugia drop everything and go and read it.

  • billyryan

    where oh where there is a guy who claims to have knowledge on the case called luciano aviello,he would not be a case changing witness,i am hoping it is someone completely new.amanda and raffaela apartments are about a five minute walk apart,there just had to be somebody on the street that night who could give evidence that amanda and raffaella did not walk from from raffaelas apartment to the cottage
    al and i are back to name calling on the injusticeinperugia blog

  • where oh where?

    Hey, Mary, keep yanking their chain! I’m sure the boys ran off to pmf to report.

  • where oh where?

    Hey, BillyRyan and John, good to hear from you. BillyRyan, I’m wondering about the new witness, also. Other things, too. I want to see what the FBI agent has to say about luminol. I would also like to see him do a blow by blow description of what he thinks happened that night. I wonder about sequence of events. Reading Candace’s book was really helpful, but I would like more.

    I was particularly interested in the basket of mushrooms that Meredith had on her shelf of the fridge with the pulled backed plastic, showing that she had most probably had a nibble that night, which is what the autopsy showed. Her purse was also found on her bed showing that she had probably dropped her purse in her room and then gone back to the kitchen for a snack just before the attack. I don’t think she would have dropped off her purse in her bedroom if rudy had accompanied her into the house, nor casually nibbled a mushroom. Oh, well, IMO anyway.

    Mary, I think they don’t much like Candace on jref. Their loss.

    I read the article you posted, I hadn’t read it before. From personal experience I can say that I perfectly understand what the author was saying, having studied in a country with a background comparable in many ways to Italy.

  • Mary H.

    WOW wrote: “Have you read Candace’s book, yet? She says Sophie Purton told the police on Nov. 3 about the men Amanda brought home and that centered the attention of the investigators on Amanda. Sex, once again, front and center.”

    Someone on JREF pointed out that Amanda brought home four men and only one was an overnight guest.

    Did you ever read this?

    http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/12/04/the-slut-shaming-of-amanda-knox-an-old-and-ugly-italian-pattern-plays-out-again/

  • Mary H.

    Great to see you guys! Bill Edelblute finally put up a new article today (apparently he had one a few days ago and nobody noticed it — his fault for waiting so long between articles). I love this post someone left:

    “lory says:
    What’s wrong with you? You got so few clients that you need to try writing on a free site about something you don’t know to advertise yourself?
    Great advertising, you don’t have a defending instinct…
    You got so much spare time that you even go to books presentations among students and retired people…
    And you are not even able to shoot a video…
    Damn, I’ll remember your name, I’m not gonna pick you as a lawyer…”

    http://www.examiner.com/x-32288-Spokane-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m5d9-Amanda-Knox-author–cites-Senator-Cantwell-in-book-tour

    He really deserves that.

    I am already getting tired of JREF; they are utterly ridiculous there. Absolutely nothing ever gets accomplished. At least on other sites the guilters run away after awhile.

    As soon as more articles start coming out again, there will be more places to post. I think I read somewhere today that Frank says that Rudy’s lawyers are going to try to get him off completely and pin the entire thing on Amanda and Raffaele because there is not evidence Rudy ever touched the knife?

  • billyryan

    i have not gone anywhere i check this blog several times a day i read perugia shock comments everyday and i also read injusticeinperugia blog everyday.i dont read pmf or tjmk.i am still waiting to find out who amandas and raffaela new witness is.
    bruce of “injusticeinperugia”says there will be new information on rudy soon,i am wondering what that might be,maybe he raped before having being surprised while comitting a robery,as we all know a lot of women do not report having been raped
    as theodore simon says a new witness never before heard,can prove amanda and raffaela were not at the house when merridith was murdered

  • John Winters

    Don’t know where Billy is but I’ve given up trying to register with JREF. I think I’ve been blackballed by Lisa Simpson (did I just say that?). Alternatively, I’ve been transcribing material directly from PMF straight into Examiner sites and adding appropriate comments and observations. A bit cruel I know; I think some people over at PMF are very young, but I keep having to remind myself that Amanda is very young too and she’s the one doing 26 years in prison so screw them. They’ll just have to learn the gravity of making damning comments about someone else that collectively over a long period, could seriously contribute to depriving that person of their liberty and their youth.

  • where oh where?

    LOL, Mary! I agree, the far right!

    And good point about rudy’s photos compared with ones of Amanda.

    I don’t know where everyone is posting these days. I search for new articles online and on blog sites but there isn’t much new out except the bit about rudy’s appeal. People are posting on Injustice but I haven’t been able to keep up though I certainly read any new articles Bruce has posted.

    It seems that many posters are now on jref. I think this is both good and bad. It’s good to see fulcanelli/michael and his crew no longer dominate the site, but maybe bad because it takes time to post there that might be taken away from posting in other places. But, then again, at this point in time there doesn’t seem to be many other places to post.

    But I wonder where BillyRyan and John Winters are these days.

    Have you read Candace’s book, yet? She says Sophie Purton told the police on Nov. 3 about the men Amanda brought home and that centered the attention of the investigators on Amanda. Sex, once again, front and center.

  • Mary H.

    That is a very funny picture. I find it odd that no one ever notes the significance of Rudy’s non-smiling, monotonous facial expression. He NEVER smiles, even at parties with celebrities, etc. Yet there are dozens of photos of Amanda in a wide variety of facial expressions, engaged in a wide variety of activities. And people think SHE’s the sick one.

    I agree, the “adults” who post against Amanda have no excuse for their behavior. I can only imagine they are embittered social outcasts. Or Republicans. ;)

    Where is everyone posting lately? On injusticeinperugia? I haven’t seen many friendly faces on JREF.

  • where oh where?

    “Shit” by any other name would still smell as, yikes, shitty. But there is crap, dodo, bowel movement, poop, (I looked up synonyms out of curiosity and the list does go on and on and really gets ridiculous). Ass monkeys? Black banana? OK, OK, shit, I’ll shut up now.

    I see your hand got some rest, Mary. I think there are too many posters on jref and elsewhere with 20/20 hindsight. But some of their so called “inconsistencies” are just downright stupid and all these folks seem to do is project how They, themselves, would have acted, or what They would have said, if They found themselves in the same circumstances. No matter that They are mostly mature people somewhat older in age and experience than a 20 year old Amanda.

    But to change the subject, did you see the latest on Frank’s blog? If you haven’t you really need to get a look at the Photoshopped photo of rudy as a saint. Love Frank’s sense of humor. On the flip side, rudy’s lawyers filed his appeal.

    For the press, this case is like the entergizer bunny, it keeps on giving and giving… There is no end to the ridiculousness.

  • Mary H.

    i know! I said “shit.” Wasn’t that wrong of me? I will write on the blackboard 100 times — “I must not write “shit” on JREF.”

  • where oh where?

    Just checked jref and OMG, Mary, you’ve been reported! Does this mean you have to stand in the corner?

    RWVBWL seems a down to earth kind of guy who likes to cut through the crap. No wonder he’s rather unappreciated over there by the you know who (need I cite?).

  • Mary H.

    I know exactly what you mean, Where — their lack of self-awareness is absolutely astonishing. I thought the Bard was a man, but it turns out it’s a woman, which makes sense since I was pretty sure Montmorency was a woman, too. Did you see that her husband lost his job? I could say something about karma, but I won’t. ;)

    When I first accused her of being from PMF, she said she joined JREF to look at a story about a Scottish woman; last night she was talking about the same story on PMF. Not terribly sly, is she?

    Have you read any of the comments on JREF by RWVBWL (or whatever his name is)? He made a really good one tonight about sex partners, which probably drove all the prudes underground for awhile. No worries, I’m sure they’ll be back tomorrow.

    Fiona is a snake in the grass. I don’t follow PMF all that closely, but doesn’t she portray herself as some sort of wise social worker or something? Every time she addresses me on JREF it’s totally back-handed, passive-aggressive and hostile. Again, the self-awareness issue….

  • where oh where?

    Mary, just read some “bard” on pmf. Blah, blah, bitchin’ and complainin’ about you (what’s new there?), praising fiona (naturally) and makin’ the accusation that jref is full of playground bullies (umm, shouldn’t fulcanelli/michael be at the top of this list?). Then she said one of the funniest things ever (I actually had to clap my hands over my mouth to keep from lol-ing loud enough to get fired!).

    bard wrote: ” I am thankful for the kindness and gentleness on this board (meaning pmf) whenever I read there.” Huh?????

  • where oh where?

    Good riddance! Real men don’t post on jref.

  • Mary H.

    That’s great, Where. I haven’t read it but I liked the introductory part they published in the P-I. I hope someobody buys the movie rights.

    I think I have concluded that Montmorency is “The Bard” from PMF. He was chastising me for being funny and I asked him if he knew what the joke was — no reply. Around the same time “The Bard” wrote on PMF that he wouldn’t be going back to JREF because I was making jokes about a murder case and I made him feel dirty.

    LOL!

  • where oh where?

    Hi Mary, I have posted a few times but not as Where. I still have a couple of weeks of very busy time before I can. I like some time to put my thoughts in order before I post, especially on jref. You are doing great, however! I’m very far behind with reading all the posts but you’ve added a certain liveliness that jref needed. Not to mention some just downright honest answers that don’t need often repeated “cites” to make them true.

    I hope John gets on soon. It does seem that many of the posters who post on other sites, both the guilters and ones who believe the two innocent, are now converging so I think jref will get much more interesting. No one there to kick out those who disagree.

    Yeah, I think you’re right about al not being montmorency. He is a piece of work and is a whiny one at that.

    I finished Candace’s book and thoroughly enjoyed it. I learned a few new things I hadn’t known before and can’t wait to bring some questions to jref and other places, also.

  • Mary H.

    Thank you so much, Where. I was feeling extremely unappreciated.

    No, I don’t think Montmorency is Al-Fake. In spite of everything, Al-Fake does not have a black heart, and usually when he is bested he has the dignity to go away for awhile and regroup. He is not really that good at comebacks and he doesn’t try to provoke people as much as this vile being does.

    I have a suspicion it might be “Some Alibi,” a PMF regular who I tangled with on the Daily Beast to the extent that he got very angry. He may feel freer to be totally vicious hiding behind a different name.

    Are you going to post on JREF, Where? I promise I won’t ask you for citations to support your opinions. :)

  • where oh where?

    A complete fit is an understatement, Mary. They’ve gone wild. pmf, too.

    I do wonder if montmorency isn’t our good friend al-fake? monte does seem to get upset for many of the same reasons al did. And saying the “Police in Italy are real men” goes right along with him having been one, policeman that is. Oh, and he brings up Guantanamo in a future quote.

  • where oh where?

    Hi Mary, just caught up on jref. Congrats on upsetting the apple cart. The site sure needed it. At least you, Bruce and a few others are finally getting them out of all the circular arguments. Though I’m quite sure those arguments will come back.

    John, I really don’t get why jref is rejecting your application. It seems really strange. Here are 2 answers you might check into.

    “I have no idea, el buscador: but the question will likely not be seen in this thread. You could post it in the questions sub forum at Forum Management: or you could PM one of the admins, Lisa Simpson or Darat. You will find them in the members list at the top”

    “Could you give us a clue as to what the application was? Normally you have to have media presence, so that might have been it. Some people want to apply without filling in the form. Some people fail to state what their claim is in terms that make it testable. There is a forum that is dedicated to the claims process:

    http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=8

  • Mary H.

    I sure wish you could join me there. I have never seen so many people have such a complete fit about someone else’s opinion. You would think I had committed the murder. And have you read the swill from Montmorency? Good lord. At least they deleted one of his comments; they should delete them all.

    Were you actually rejected or was it just a case of you apspam filter or something? I couldn’t log on and wrote to them (also to Lisa Simpson) and she finally registered me manually because none of their messages were coming to my e-mail.

  • John Winters

    Since my first rejected application to JREF which I told you about, I have tried again, and again I have been refused. My email about rejection from the site, sent to the proper authority, one Lisa Simpson(!), was ignored. Mind you, I did happen to suggest in it that perhaps I wasn’t gaining acceptance at JREF because I didn’t look like Christy Turlington.

  • Mary H.

    yes, I did leave that part out even though it was very funny; I was trying to keep it G-rated. :)

    “i am very serious when i say the guilters,visualise amanda who is very good looking in her cell in terrible distress the visiting of deanna and her two half sisters the terrible ordeal each time of their parting and leaving amanda behind,they visualise this and get great pleasure out of it”

    I know you are serious. When I first read your posts in February, I was very happy to see someone put something so essential into words.

    John, your subtle and insightful comment from the CBS blog caused quite an uproar when I tried to elaborate on the subject matter on JREF. Now they’ve picked up the banner at PMF. They act as if this never occurred to them before.

  • billyryan

    no problem mary work away
    i think i was claiming that al-fakh had only one testicle,did you leave a line or two out.i am very serious when i say the guilters,visualise amanda who is very good looking in her cell in terrible distress the visiting of deanna and her two half sisters the terrible ordeal each time of their parting and leaving amanda behind,they visualise this and get great pleasure out of it
    one very interesting thing i read from the site when i visited was a statment was that more was to come out about rudy,plus there is a new witness,the guilters are hoping that it is just mario alessi,but bruce seemed to indicate that it is somebody else,i now think that the defence will only identify this witness when they absolutely have to.i bet that mignini is tearing his hair out thinking about this new witness and what evidence he might have,also that the dna evidence of the prosecution will be destroyed in the appeal

  • Mary H.

    Your perspective seems fine to me, John. Everyone has his or her own style.

    By the way, John and Billy, I shared some of your posts with the JREF Forum yesterday and today. I hope you don’t mind; I just thought they were so good.

    John, yours is on this page:

    http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161229&page=235

    and Billy, yours are here:

    http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161229&page=242

  • billyryan

    steve moore says,while an innocent young girl is in prison he cannot walk away,i say welcome to the club because none of the rest of us can walk away either.the guilters/haters/sadists could not get any forenzic scientists to support publically the prosecution dna evidence despite a massive search,i await with interest to see if money can get a respected investigater to support the investigation and the charging of amanda and raffaela,if anyone with credentials in murder investigation will say its ok to fry four computer hard drives,to conviently forget to record an interrogation to leave a vital piece of evidence at the murder scene for 47 days to break all protocol in testing the knife blade and still claim the test is dependable to have a prosecuter charged with abuse of power in charge of the investigation,to ignore all fingerprints and dna at the scene accept that belonging to amanda and raffaela.they are surely trying to get someone at the moment and will stay trying into the future but i would expect their search is doomed to failure

  • John Winters

    I read Steve Moore. Sharp isn’t he? Made me wonder why I can’t get that kind of focussed perspective on the case. I think it’s because I spend too much time with the sluggish mindset you get involved with when you argue it out with people from PMF.

  • Mary H.

    Carl sure writes a lot for someone who knows so little. I thought he might be one of the people you mentioned, too, but he really seems to be uninformed.

  • where oh where?

    It comes from jref, also. It’s one of the points of the day’s arguments, that pmf only recently changed the arrest to the ticket. When the judges’ report finally comes out I would love to see a list of all the claims and evidence lost to the prosecution. The guilter sites, also.

  • Mary H.

    Hi WoW – Thanks for your support on the CBS blog. :) I don’t think we’ll be seeing Carl again, since he won’t be able to provide the links I asked for. He is just parroting stuff he has read on TJMK and PMF.

    In true hater fashion, though, he might come back with an accusation that I am just playing games and I could find those links if I wanted to. I have dealt with that kind of attack on several sites; then they say they’ll get back to me with the link and we never hear from them again. It’s funny how they never seem to mind being wrong — they just pick up and go to another site and carry on.

  • where oh where?

    It was a good post by John. So true, too. I just had time today to read it.

  • Loretta Pirozzi

    Amanda is innocent and Mignini is guilty. It all boils down to whom you believe. I believe Mignini is a liar and I believe Amanda is consistently telling the truth (when not being slapped around and abused).
    I think Mignini is a megalomaniac who has lied, cheated, abused his power and maliciously ruined people’s lives. The more he gets away with the more invincible he feels and acts … which I hope will be his undoing.
    I understand that Mignini is known, in Italy, to be very religious. I am certain that Mignini will eventually be known, world-wide, to be sadistic and delusional.
    I am also appalled by those who cannot express an opinion on Amanda without trash-talking to cover their own misery. Many are jealous and just delight in the pain and sorrow of this once-happy family.
    I notice that more women are realizing that Amanda is innocent, But the men can’t seem to allow themselves to change their prejudices. Instead they escalate their trash talk. So sad! So transparent! So Mignini-like.
    Please take the time to discover the truth today.
    Visit: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org

  • Mary H.
  • Mary H.

    I do get your drift, WoW. I can’t think of anything that has less to do with me than the punishment of someone who committed a crime that didn’t touch my life in any way. That’s what we have police and prosecutors for.

    Have you ever seen any of the TV coverage of the Casey Anthony case? They have shown these groups of trashy people storming the front yard of the grandparents’ home, demanding justice for the baby who was killed. Many of them drag their own neglected-looking children along with them to witness the hate-filled screaming matches. As far as I’m concerned, those people and the “guilters” belong in the same category, along with the people who hang around outside a prison so they can cheer when a convict is executed. Trashy, trashy, trashy.

    As you point out, WoW — yes, it’s one thing to comment, but it’s a whole different state of being to administer and devote one’s time and thoughts to maintaining one of those guilt sites. What a way to gain one’s fifteen minutes of fame and the small number of admirers that result.

  • where oh where?

    Hi Billy, Mary. Great articles! I hope there are more to come. Candace Dempsy’s book is due out tomorrow and I’ve got one on reserve at my favorite Barnes & Noble. It’s got to be better than the mess of a book that barbie nadeau published. Hopefully there will be more and new information included.

    I’m still wondering when the motivations report will be finished. It occurred to me that pmf might release it tomorrow to downplay Candace’s book, at least to their limited readership. Umm, I went over to check for the motivations report and see the first post on Steve Moore’s articles. It’s just an inquiry, no responses, yet. Maybe I’ll lurk around over there for a little while and watch the screaming. It should be fun. I’ve been avoiding pmf for awhile because it’s just such a sickening place to visit and it leaves me feeling so unclean and depressed. It really is sad that adults sit around all day and spend so many hours in malicious gossip sessions. I know sometimes people who believe in Amanda & Raffaele’s innocence can go overboard and make nasty comments, but to spend day after day, hour after hour doing so is just downright sick. And to be a moderator on that site….well, you get my drift, I’m sure.

  • Mary H.

    Thanks for the tip, Billy; I read them both and am so happy someone with his expertise is finally getting exposure. That the Perugian police did a ridiculously amateur job of collecting evidence becomes so obvious when it is described by someone who actually knows how to collect evidence.

  • billyryan

    mary h wow john winters if ye have not done so already go and read the two latest articles by the former fbi agent steve moore on injusticeinperugia his first article was very good but these two are brilliant,these two articles should be printed in every paper in the us this guy should be put on every talk show possible

  • billyryan

    welcome olivia to our discussion,have you got expertise in this area.there is some unidentified dna in this house.also there is seventeen unatributed fingerprints at the cottage.the only fingerprint of raffaela in the cottage was on a rolled cigarette butt,in that same ash tray there was other cigarette butts with still unidentified fingerprints,olivia i do not know if or not you are new to this case but one thing you should know this has not being a fair trial if the appeal will be fair or not i do not know or if a fair trial exists in italy

  • where oh where?

    Yeah, Billy Ryan, I understand what you’re saying. I wonder, also, about those electronic files. I remember that it was the .fsa files and the logs that weren’t turned over. I’m wondering if someone looking at these files and logs could determine if many more pieces of evidence were actually tested and found viable but because they didn’t show that Amanda and Raffaele were guilty that evidence wasn’t reported.

    On the unidentified bra clasp DNA, I wonder if any of the 3 is stefanoni”s?

  • http://deleted Olivia

    The defense should see if it can run tests of the other DNA on the clasp. They could at least find out the ancestral traits of the unknown people whose DNA it is. For example, if the DNA profiles of one of the other three comes back as Jewish/Arab female, and we know of no Jewish/Arab female connected with this matter, that would strongly suggest that the DNA arose from contamination at the lab. If the DNA came back as Italian female, then the DNA of the other roomates and friends should be taken to determine if perhaps the DNA contamination arose from household members or guests. That would suggest that Raff’s DNA got there simply from being a guest whose DNA was tracked into the room along with the DNA of other roomates or friends who are obviously innocent of involvement. Just saying no one knows whose DNA it is not good enough. It is crucial to determine at least the ancestral traits of the DNA, and go from there. That is how a man was cleared in the US after being unjustly accused of murder. No one knew whose DNA was found at the scene, but they were able to determine that the DNA had African/Native American traits, so that helped to eliminate the Caucasian. The lesson—focus on the Ancestral Traits of unidentified DNA.

  • billyryan

    where oh where there is also some unidentified dna at the house as well as seventeen unatributed fingerprints.patrizia stefanoni has as yet not been forced to hand over to the defence the electronic data that underlies the dna test results
    on another point i never could find out about filomenias alabi she was defenitaly in perugia that night
    as reguards mignini losing twice in a row he is probally also looseing his ability to intimidate all oponents.if he looses his appeal against his own conviction he will be automatically banned from holding any public office,then all his power will be gone but the hatred of the innocent people whose lives he ruined that wont be disapearing any time soon
    judge paolo micheli did not wait for a jury and a trial to decide on the narduci case he moved with the determination of a man who now knows he was duped in the merridith kercher case.i hope in time when mignini falls he will also take with him the people who took his word without any evidence

  • Wher oh Where?

    Hi Mary, maybe Frank meant Micheli agreed with mignini in his other of the wall attempts at a motive. You know how Frank can sometimes confuse the issue because of the language difference.

    On another subject, Bruce brought up a great point on jref on the bra clasp evidence. The bra itself, collected on the first day, did not show the same contaminated DNA as the bra clasp. So, if the 3 unidentified DNA profiles got there in the shared laundry, why weren’t they on the bra itself? Now the big question, who’s DNA and where did it come from?

  • Mary H.

    I do live in Seattle but I don’t know anyone else who is very interested in the case. I don’t have any connection to Amanda’s family or friends.

    I agree Mignini loses ground every day, and I think the PR efforts have had a lot to do with that. As opposed to what Al-Fakh and his ilk say, the people ARE affected by what they read in the media, and maybe even in the blogs.

    I have to differ with Frank a little about the quote you cited, WoW — wasn’t Micheli the judge who wrote the decision about sentencing Rudy? He actually did disagree that there was a ritualistic element to the murder.

  • billyryan

    mary H WHERE OH WHERE any news on who the new witness might be.how important he or she might be.mary h you are from seattle there must be speculation there about the new witness.if it is important to keep the name of this witness quite i can wait
    i think at this stage it is in the interest of all of the judges to keep their distance from mignini he could at any minute go into freefall with all the enemies he has built up.he could very easily find himself alone without any friends

  • where oh where?

    Thanks, Mary, I went over and read it. mignini is a real piece of work. I think he truly believes in satanic cults.

    Frank’s newest blog is about mignini and the Narducci case. He says the following: “But the Narducci case was the most important of his life. It was a fight against the world that fascinated many, and certainly revealed courage.
    With a more than a year long pre-trial, Paolo Micheli –one of those 18 judges who fully approved his theory against Knox and Sollecito– stopped today Mignini’s big dream of dismantling some of Italy’s occult powers.”

    Well, this is twice mignini has lost, his own trial and now the Narducci case. I hope his losses keep on and multiply and they fire him or force him to retire.

    But, truthfully, mignini’s continuing folly in trying to prosecute such stupid cases is a window into his warped mind. He has become such a laughingstock and that helps convince people of Amanda and Raffaele’s innocence.

  • Mary H.

    Good point, WoW. Maybe it wasn’t who Guede knew that made the police want to placate him. Maybe it was that they didn’t want the public to know that they had let a known criminal walk the streets and then he went and killed somebody. We’ve had several murders in recent years in Seattle committed by criminals who should not have been released, and it has caused a huge uproar and backlash against the police. I don’t know if the Perugians feel the same way about that sort of thing, though.

    Did you see this news about Mignini’s satanic-ritual theories?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20003238-504083.html

  • where oh where?

    Hmm, I’d like to see more evidence. rudy could have been an informant but I’m wondering exactly what that entails. From reading about other crimes that involve informants it sometimes can be a somewhat informal relationship between one cop and some of the street people he deals with while performing his job. That rudy might have contacts as powerful as this article implies would need proving IMO. From what Dr. Waterbury says more will be forth coming so I wait with baited breath.

  • Mary H.

    Here is a link to the piece by Mark Waterbury. His theory is that Rudy Guede was a police informant, who was deliberately not prosecuted for the series of six crimes preceding the murder. Since the police were responsible for Guede being on the streets, they had to keep him quiet after the murder. They made a bargain with him by minimizing his role in the murder, and presenting the other two suspects as the masterminds.

    At the end of the essay, Waterbury offers these insights:

    “Amanda and Raffaele weren’t set free when Rudy was captured because they knew all along that Rudy was guilty, and they were trying desperately to get him off. They needed Amanda and Raffaele as scapegoats more than ever.

    “And finally, we can perhaps understand some of the vilification of Amanda Knox. When you do something terrible to someone, one of the processes that kicks in is to find justifications for why you did that wrong. Psychologists call it “transference.”

    “The [Perugian Powers That Be] didn’t do terrible things to Amanda because they despised her. They despised her because they did terrible things to her. They had to rationalize what they had done. They needed Amanda as a scapegoat to save themselves. They needed to view Amanda as an evil person to avoid realizing that they themselves were evil.”

    http://www.sciencespheres.com/

  • billyryan

    it is all about the new witness now.only a handfull of posts on perugia shock over the last few days everybody is waiting to see who the the new witness is.Ted simon in his interview with cbs news mentioned mario alessi evidence but the new witness is completely independant of that.
    I hope the defence can keep the haters/guilters guessing for a while anyway. did ye all read mark c waterbury latest artical the link can be got on injusticeinperugia it was excellant

  • where oh where?

    Yeah, I’m getting tired of lies, lies, lies. Especially since they tend to forget about the police/prosecution lies like the duvet with no blood until we got to see a photo with huge bloody blotches, the postal police who arrived at 12:35 PM until we got to see the photos/video of the parking garage that shows they didn’t walk up the driveway till at least 12:56 PM, the bloody shoe print Amanda’s size that turned out to be rudy’s, and on and on……

  • where oh where?

    Hi Mary, did you see Frank’s blog this morning? I do wonder who sat in the courtroom for this case! It’s the Narducci case and mignini just lost, big time, and micheli was the judge.

    “But today the judge ruled. No trial for the relatives of the young doctor and the ones who allegedly conspired with them, included police officers, firefighters, doctors and the now co-writer with Douglas Preston of the book The Monster of Florence, Mario Spezi.
    At the lake, it was an accident, or a suicide. No big conspiracy happened around Francesco Narducci. No corpse was swapped. Or maybe it wasn’t possible to prove it, we’ll see how Micheli will explain his decision.
    How will Mignini comment tomorrow? Only I know the mystery of the lake, he sometimes tells me. And how to disagree, it’s a kind of a complicated case. Micheli, though, must have informed himself.”

  • Mary H.

    When Amanda’s enemies have to cling to the minutiae of phone records instead of real evidence, it’s obvious they are grasping at straws. After two years’ worth of Amanda being accused of not waiting to see if Meredith would pick up after three seconds, it turns out after the first call Amanda made, Meredith’s phone went automatically to voice mail thereafter.

    Billy is right — there is no way anyone can remember who they called or the sequence of their calls four days after making them. Rare is the person who could do it even after one day.

  • someday

    When Amanda called Filomena before the police ever showed up she said she was at the cottage when the phone records show she was at Raffaele’s. When Patrick told her no need to work that evening, she texted back and told the Police she was at Raffaele’s at the time when she was in town.

  • billyryan

    amasing that “someday” you expect amanda to have perfect mememory of where she was five six days later when she spoke to someone on the phone the exact sequence of the phone calls she made,every detail of what she said while dealing with serious grief and shock.when amanda got the text from patrick lumumba it put patrick and amanda at the pizzaria something that was accepted by all sides as not true,tecnology is not perfect
    of course you are much more liberal when it comes to a professional police force,like the postal police officer who lied about entering the room and lifting the cover off the body. The turning off of the tape recording of the interrogation,or the destruction of the tapes afterwards.the frying of four computer hard drives.the deliberate telling a young girl she had aids,the deliberate contamanation of the bra strap.
    I know you call yourself “someday”but i suspect you are al-sack-of-shit in disguise

  • Someday

    Mary H,
    I think when we see the full report and the phone calls made by Amanda and compare with her version of the truth we will see she was not where she said she was and she with held and controlled information inorder to attempt to cover the crime and her involvement. Why not email her and asked why she lied about where she was when she made calls and sent texts?

  • Mary H.

    Maybe it will be like that scene in the Godfather, where Frankie Pentangeli is all set to testify against the Corleones, but they fly his brother in from Sicily just to sit in the audience of the congressional hearings — it’s enough to get him to shut up and commit suicide afterward.

    Which one of the Perugian judges has a “brother from Sicily?” ;)

  • where oh where?

    Hi Mary, I was thinking along the same lines. I’m beginning to wonder if this case is going to be the second coming of the Monster of Florence case. I hope not, talk about going down the rabbit hole! It’s just, where is the logic, the common sense? Not to be found in Perugia, obviously. I really hope Amanda can be extricated from this mess and soon.

  • Mary H.

    That’s great information, John.

    Billy, I am hoping the “witness” will be an expert in DNA. I hope it isn’t actually a case of what Al-Fakh said on the P-I: “Papi Sollecito found the right people in his mafia infested town to find the ‘new’ star witness who will solve the puzzle for all of us.”

    Then again, I am judging as a citizen of the U.S., where such a tactic would be ridiculed. Maybe it actually will work in the melodramatic Perugian court system.

  • John Winters

    I’ve just looked up applications to the European Court of Human Rights. One of the principle functions of this court is to hear claims from people who believe they did not receive a fair hearing in a criminal court in one of the member states bound by the court’s convention. Italy being a member of the EU is automatically bound by this court’s convention. However, all possible court proceedings (as in appeal hearings), in the subject state must have been gone through prior to application to the ECHR. This means that the ECHR would be available to Amanda to make ”an application” to as they call it, within 6 months after and if her third appeal at the Supreme Court in Italy failed.
    Just something to keep in mind for the future. If things go badly in the fall, perhaps we could synchronistically write to the head honchos at Friends of Amanda and put this to them as a possible future move to consider. It actually looks quite straightforward, not bound up in legal gobbledegook at all! I believe this court would undo the horrible political knots overshadowing Amanda’s case. With clarity they would then see the prosecution case for what it really is and throw the whole rotten mess into the trashcan where it belongs, something the court in Perugia, which is politically and culturally entangled in Mignini’s miasma, cannot do.

  • billyryan

    anyone have any information on who the new witness is a fair court would have dismissed the case against amanda and raffaela long ago,i am hoping the defence can keep the kangaroo court guessing as to who the new witness might be

  • John Winters

    PS. Blimey, we’ve been invaded!

  • John Winters

    wow quotes:

    ”Being just twenty uncensored matters little while ‘weighs’ the port of the knife from Sollecito (”presupposes a potentially aggressive attitude”) and the fine imposed on Amanda in Seattle after a night of alcohol and noise.”

    Hang on just a cotton-pickin’ minute there boy!!

    How come the prosecution squad can raise this drivel about a noisy party (for chrissa#e!), when Guede’s record (which would finally put HIM behind bars forever if openly connected directly to the nature of his involvement in the Kercher case), cannot be introduced because according to Italian law, his former crimes constitute ”a separate issue.!!”

    Now tell me it’s not one law for them…

  • billyryan

    the mountain of evidence in this case indicates that a criminal prosecuter framed an innocent young couple and got a guilty verdict in a kangaroo court

  • colonelhall

    kitt waters said:”If you think Amanda Knox is guilty, then why?”

    Because there was an extensive trial in which a mountain of evidence, witness statements and conflicting alibis were examined. This resulted in a jury pronouncing the verdict which was “guilty” Seems like a good reason to me.

  • kitt waters

    If you think Amanda Knox is guilty, then why? Because you heard someone say so? Because you accepted without questioning some myth about a cartwheel or accusing an innocent man? (Not true.) If the information you heard is wrong, then so is your conclusion. If she was your daughter/sister/friend, wouldn’t you want people to listen to both sides of the story before deciding?
    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/
    injustice in perugia . org

  • where oh where?

    Hi Mary, Here is a story I found and translated via google about the prosecution’s appeal and the family is mentioned in the document. I don’t know what that means as I said before, but maybe something will come of it. The original article is here:
    http://lanazione.ilsole24ore.com/umbria/cronaca/2010/04/15/318732-nessuno_sconto.shtml

    “Prosecutors: No discount
    Amanda and Raffaele ”
    Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, the prison continues to proclaim himself innocent and they should be acquitted, the prosecutor wants them sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of Meredith Kercher. No discount to former boyfriends who have acted so “cool”

    Perugia, April 15, 2010 – With the appeal brought by prosecutors Manuela Comfortable and Giuliano Mignini against the granting of extenuating circumstances and the exclusion of dell’aggravante petty reasons, approved by the Court of Assizes, was taken the first step towards a process for the dramatic murder of a student. Raped and murdered in Via della Pergola on the night of the first November 2007.

    Saturday defenses might well settle the grounds of appeal. The prosecutor has already moved in the meantime. In thirteen pages, the prosecutors are asking the Court a “penalty justice for defendants (26 and sentenced to 25 years). But, without extenuating circumstances and the grounds trivial, mean life imprisonment. “In his thorough and rigorous reasoning in support of the decision, the Court of Assizes, having rebuilt without fail the event for which the process and the responsibility of the two defendants, solves in a row – write pm – ‘s dell’aggravante exclusion of petty reasons, and deals then consider the extenuating circumstances which, with convincing arguments, to grant the accused. ”

    In particular, say they are comfortable and Mignini, “the entire reconstruction which led the Court to hold that there was no ‘good’ reason (or animosity between Amanda and Meredith, or money matters, nor a quarrel degenerated) to kill, But accession to the immediate purpose of sexual Rudy Guede, requires viepiù enhancement of the grounds of futility. ”

    Furthermore, “what the Court described as a motive is indeed the paradigm of absolute and reprehensible disproportion between ‘reason’ and ‘action’. Without considering then that if the aggravating circumstance in question was recognized there for competitor Rudy Guede also the appellate court – is written in the appeal – can not use on the part of two competitors that have gone along with the purpose of criminal accomplice if the reason was futile for Rudi, it would be even more to the current defendants a view of the Court, have moved in the grip of ‘exciting’ curiosity to experience violence on a young girl who was, moreover, the roommate Amanda. ”

    ‘Forced’ to the prosecutor, is also granted the benefit of the law that allowed defendants to avoid a more severe penalty. The Court recognized Amanda and Raffaele extenuating circumstances based on six grounds: incesuratezza, the absence of discreditable conduct against others, be diligent in study, inexperience and far from their families of origin, the random contingencies and conduct post crimen. For the proxy instead are not only sufficient but can be folded down the accused.

    Being just twenty uncensored matters little while ‘weighs’ the port of the knife from Sollecito (“presupposes a potentially aggressive attitude”) and the fine imposed on Amanda in Seattle after a night of alcohol and noise. As to the fact “that they were outside the protective wing of their families, these considerations, especially in the case of Knox, are strikingly contrasting elements of opposite sign” also “about the serious business slander against Diya Lumumba “and then” to members of the squad, facts, during the intervention in the trial of Knox, further slanderous expressions “.

    “All behaviors that demonstrate a singular coldness – write pm – and determination and not some sign of a markedly gentle and condition of inexperience and neglect.” I am also critical towards the families, all finished under investigation: their action (the reference is to Knox, ed) were never intended to remedy the initial slander against Diya Lumumba, even when the mother had received the Knox confidences about her daughter’s innocence … No positive effect could produce the closeness of families. ”

    The prosecutor also condemns the ‘randomness’ of the crime: “If indeed, as the Court, both defendants have acted in a state of total impassive, as if rape and kill a contemporary, for flatmate Knox, had to go to alternative a pub, a nightclub, or consume drugs or have sex or, more simply, to go to sleep, how sustainable this ‘contingency random’ could be used for less serious evaluation of it? “. No “repentance”, as finally approved by the Court, after the crime. And ‘true covered the body for female piety “but then Amanda and Raffaele” showed impressive coolness. ”

    Erika Pontini”

  • Mary H.

    Well, since so much of what Mignini has said and written hasn’t raised an invasion of Italy, I’m not sure it will make a difference. Do you know in what context he mentioned her? Maybe the poster from injustice just meant Mignini revealed his emotional stripes, although he always does that, if you ask me. I will go to injustice and have a look. Thanks, Wow.

  • where oh where?

    “The spotlight in the appeal will now be on the judges, the jury, the forensic police, the “scientists”, the interrogators, and the prosecutors. The pressure seems to have gotten to Mignini as he has brought in the subject of Amanda’s mother. This is a major mistake. Wait and see the reaction.”

    Someone posted this at injustice today and now I’m really curious. Do you think bringing Amanda’s mom into the prosecution’s appeal is going to make a big difference? I’m no lawyer, but Edda wasn’t on trial and for her to be mentioned in a legal document like this really could spell trouble alright, maybe the international kind. I hope it is big, huge.

  • Mary H.

    Here is a letter I wrote. If you have someone you would like to send it to, be my guest.
    ——————————

    United States citizen and Washington State resident Amanda Knox is currently incarcerated in prison in Perugia, Italy, as a result of wrongful arrest and wrongful conviction. Amanda Knox’s legal representatives at the state and national level should immediately examine the case of Amanda Knox thoroughly, and act upon their findings as swiftly as possible.

    Ample evidence has come to light confirming that the Perugian police knowingly acted in bad faith when they interrogated Ms. Knox and coerced her into making a false confession. Evidence shows there is a strong likelihood the police and Perugian courts imprisoned Ms. Knox for reasons other than her involvement in a crime.

    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2007/pr24/en/

    http://www.cbsnews.com8301-504083_162-20002467-504083.html

    Additionally, when the Italian police tested Ms. Knox for HIV in prison, they defied many of the recommendations of the World Health Organization regarding HIV testing, including the following:

    “When implementing provider-initiated HIV testing and counselling, equal efforts must be made to ensure that a supportive social, policy and legal framework is in place to maximize positive outcomes and minimize potential harms to patients.”

    On the contrary, Ms. Knox’s false positive test results and her ensuing personal efforts to deal with the results were revealed to the general public through the press, making her an object of public ridicule. Obviously, her right to confidentiality and no doubt other rights were violated, as well.

    It is my fervent hope that all of Amanda’s legal representatives in local and national governments, as well as all other interested parties, will pay immediate attention to this case and work quickly to obtain Amanda’s release.

    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2007/pr24/en/

    http://www.who.int/3by5/publications/briefs/hiv_testing_counselling/en/

  • John Winters

    ”Aren’t there some international laws against that kind of harassment?”

    Mary, you said it!

    It looks like nothing and nobody in Italy has the maturity and professionalism to handle this case appropriately. Now they can’t even condemn her properly.

    When teachers can no longer handle problem children, they turn to the parents to take a more responsible role.

    I wish FOA were somehow a more dynamic machinery. They should now be directing complaints about Amanda’s handling to the European Court of Human Rights, no joke!

  • Mary H.

    Yes, this case will definitely go down in history; actually it already has.

    “…I’m so behind on my deadlines but I just can’t seem to stop searching the web today to find more news.”

    I know the feeling!

  • where oh where?

    Oops, of course I know the report is out on rudy, I just read something wrong so don’t bother with tjmk. It’s just old stuff.

  • where oh where?

    Rudy’s sentencing report is also out. The stories are on tjmk. What a day! What else is going to come out? Lawdy Miss Clawdy, I’m so behind on my deadlines but I just can’t seem to stop searching the web today to find more news.

  • where oh where?

    Hopefully that’s what Ted Simon will find out. This case it turning into the biggest fiasco since…, well, I can’t think of another case like it, ever.

  • Mary H.

    So much evidence is coming to light that Amanda was convicted before she was even arrested — the cops saying that they knew she was guilty without evidence, and now this:

    “Amanda Knox Framed: Picture Hung in Italian Police “Hall of Shame” BEFORE She Was Charged With Murder”

    http://topics.pe.com/article/05qL2GfgCOcxF?q=Rome

    Aren’t there some international laws against that kind of harassment?

  • where oh where?

    Hi Mary,
    I could hardly believe it when I saw the story about mignini. He just keeps digging himself in deeper and deeper. It’s so absurd that it’s hard to take seriously. When he feels threatened he definitely goes on the attack. I think this time it’s going to backfire big time.

    Bruce says that in the next couple of weeks that more evidence is going to come out showing Amanda and Raffaele are innocent. What if the rest of the world believes the two are innocent? What is going to happen if Italy keeps persecuting them?

    As far as Fiona goes, check out her posts on JREF. She’s not that tender hearted, but I think she knows that kicking Bruce off pmf for the reasons they did is wrong. I think she’s trying to reconcile this knowledge with the party line.

  • Mary H.

    Thank you for the links, guys. I will have a look.

    “TJ dullards” and “learn in peace” — LOL!

    I do have to give Fiona some credit for seeming to have a softer heart than the rest of the pack of wolves.

  • Mary H.

    Could Mignini be any more absurd? He is appealing the sentence — asking for life in prison.

    “Italian prosecutors launch appeal against Amanda Knox’s ‘lenient’ 26-year jail term”

    By Nick Pisa
    Last updated at 6:20 PM on 15th April 2010

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1266257/Italian-prosecutors-launch-appeal-Amanda-Knoxs-lenient-26-year-jail-term.html

  • where oh where?

    Hi John, what???? What is going on at jref that you can’t register? I don’t get it. I did register a couple of weeks ago and I can post I just haven’t yet. I’m up against some deadlines and I don’t have a lot of time to think through responses to post, so I haven’t done much posting for awhile. I wonder if Mary will register?

    In the meantime, you can check out the current forum that is hot and heavy right now since Bruce came aboard.

    http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161229&page=173

    Mary, John, take a look a look below at a post about Bruce’s being banned from pmf. It’s so ridiculous, banning anyone with an opposing view so they can “learn in peace”. What?

    Fiona: Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:26 am. “I was not comfy with the banning of BF before he had demonstrated he was wasting our time: but having thought about it that approach is what allows us to explore properly: I think it was right for this board and I think it lets us learn in peace. So I am not criticising or suggesting that all information should not be fully considered and given its due weight. I think I am a little angry and frustrated tonight. Time for bed, methinks”

  • where oh where?

    Hi Mary, here is the current discussion and it is active. Bruce just came on and blew the lid off. So, if you haven’t found it yet, take a look.

    http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161229&page=173

  • John Winters

    Mary H.
    As far as I’m aware, there isn’t an Amanda discussion as such currently on JREF; just one or two sites where the thread has tailed off in recent weeks. I was trying to get in there on wow’s urging intending to maybe get the pot boiling again with a few well-chosen pro-Amanda epithets. That usually brings the volcano back to life when the TJ dullards have tried to lay everything to rest.

    This one was still going 20th march:

    http: //forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161229&page=138

    If they’ll accept your application to register, I’d suggest trying a reply to this one.

  • Mary H.

    By the way, how can I find the discussion on JREF? Does anyone have a link? Thanks!

  • Mary H.

    I was looking over PMF, where they were rationalizing their bullying of Bruce Fisher yesterday, and found the following gem. I forgot to note the name of the contributor, but in general he or she was dismissing the type of people who write in support of Amanda:

    “…..but overall we have seen a certain type come out of the woodwork who have their own issues it seems. In the old days they might collect newspaper clipping and the sort and keep them in a scrapbook or plaster the wall with them but their obsession is all to apparent and their photos are a dead give way on the facebook sites…

    OMG!!! Has this person ever looked at truejustice???!!!

  • John Winters

    Wow.
    JREF still haven’t admitted me and when I went to email the person they nominate to contact with registration problems, I found her out name was…wait for it, Lisa simpson!
    I know you recommended them wow but it looks like in my case the Homer Simpson School of Law has ID’ed me and they aint gonna let me in….too many criticisms of their representative in Italy, Paolo (Doh) Mignini.

  • John Winters

    Here is my take on the new article:
    Steve Moore is fresh, incisive, experienced, informed, educated, sharp, pertinent, exacting, concentrative, focussed, life-saving, a breath of spring, confidence-building, reassuring….it goes on and on like that….

  • where oh where?

    Hey, guys, have you read the Injustice site’s newest article? Steve Moore, a retired FBI agent, has written a powerful piece about this case and how it was mishandled. I think he will be contributing more on the site as time goes by. I certainly hope so because he confirms what many of us know, that Amanda and Raffaele were railroaded.

  • billyryan

    proven beyond any doubt,would mean that they have amanda and raffaela blood soaked clothes from the night of the murder
    proven beyond a shadow of a doubt,would mean that the prosecution would have the murder weapon with proof that it belonged to amanda or raphaela
    proven beyond a shadow of a doubt,would mean that the presence of amanda and raffaela in the murder room could be proven by the presence of their dna,a fingerprint or a palm print,a foot print,semen,saliva
    proven beyond a shadow of a doubt,would mean that they would have a confession of their involvement
    But since the prosecution has none of these you might as well say its proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that i done it

  • where oh where?

    2cebts said: “Obviously you didn’t follow the case that much, as his claim about the “knife been thrown out” is ancient history.”

    Yes, it is ancient history so why bother to bring it up? It’s just more of the bla, bla, bla that is this case. Whatever was said or not has absolutely no bearing on whether or not Amanda is innocent.

    2cents, you don’t have doubts about the forensic evidence but others have huge doubts and that is why the Innocence Project is looking into this case. You do know about the Innocence Project and the fact that they only take on cases where they perceive a miscarriage of justice? There is also an attorney specializing in international law, what infractions might he find? You know Italy had to agree to make certain changes in their judiciary to become a member of the EU. Are they violating any of the EU laws?

    And there is the appeal. So, this case is far from over and we shall see in the end what the true facts are. I know that the facts will show Amanda and Raffaele are innocent of this crime.

  • JustMy2Cents

    @billyryan

    I have no idea who al-fakah is and I don’t mind if he wants to translate the document so that others who don’t speak Italian can read it too.

    Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox are not victims of an injustice. It has been proven beyond any doubt that they committed a heinous crime, taking a young woman’s life.

    I don’t have any reason to believe Dr. Stefanoni’s results are unreliable and I cannot see why anybody should believe that.

    Regarding Renee Perrault I can only say that it is absolutely tasteless and embarrassing to raise money in support for a convicted murderess without considering the real victim of this crime. Not only did she not take into account the young woman who lost her life thanks to Amanda Knox, Raffaele Sollecito and Rudy Guede, she didn’t look at the facts either. How unfortunate.

  • billyryan

    justmy2cents did you read the comment by al-fakh that he hopes there is enough evidence to keep this innocent couple in jail without the knife dna evidence.this statment from a man who has dedicated his life to ruining someone elses.he is giving his time for free to translate the motivations document.that statment by him makes me think that there is something in the motivations document that makes him realise that the absurdity of the knife can not much longer be mantained
    Patriizia stefanoni has so far with the court permission not handed over the electronic data that underlies the dna test results on the knife,professor dan crane says this is virtually unheard of worldwide today.what do you think she is hiding
    i would like to congratulate renee perault for standing up to help a young girl from her city who is the victim of a terrible injustice

  • JustMy2Cents

    “JustMy2Cents, what you remember seeing on television is subject to verification. I can’t find it on the Internet. Do you remember any of the details about when you saw Curt Knox make the claim about the knife, or what show it was on? I doubt he would make a claim about which the facts can be so easily checked. If he had made that claim, wouldn’t there have been a lot more discussion about it since then?”

    It was all over the internet. He didn’t say that once, but many times. You shouldn’t have any troubles finding it on youtube, for example.

    Obviously you didn’t follow the case that much, as his claim about the “knife been thrown out” is ancient history.

  • Mary H.

    ”American girl, Italian cash-cow.”

    “I know you think I’m making this up but I’m not. It really is there on the PMF site in black and more creepy black.”

    John, you are making me laugh out loud! I looked at PMF this week; it comes across more as a mutual-admiration-society chat room than a discussion. They don’t even talk that much about the case — how can they, when they all already agree with each other?

  • Mary H.

    JustMy2Cents, what you remember seeing on television is subject to verification. I can’t find it on the Internet. Do you remember any of the details about when you saw Curt Knox make the claim about the knife, or what show it was on? I doubt he would make a claim about which the facts can be so easily checked. If he had made that claim, wouldn’t there have been a lot more discussion about it since then?

    You wrote: “If there would have been problems with the knife, the judges and the jury would have disregarded it, but to them it obviously seemed to be valid evidence.”

    Well, that is the essence of the current discussion. Was there something about the trial or the jury panel that resulted in them taking the prosecution’s evidence seriously, when many independent scientists have found fault with it?

    Amanda’s family has no reason to lie, because the truth is on their side. Every time I read someone accuse one of them of lying, I research the issue and discover it usually is a case of a misunderstanding, as Where oh where pointed out. Only it’s usually on the part of the poster rather than the family.

  • JustMy2Cents

    “where oh where? said
    am April 12 2010 @ 4:57 pm
    2cents, I’ve read this before and think it’s possibly a misunderstanding on Mr. Knox’s part and not a lie.”

    Well, after hearing so many lies from the Knox camp it is indeed very difficult for me to see those as a simple “misunderstanding”. They have prestigious lawyers who are absolutely able to fill them in whenever needed. To say this is a simple misunderstanding is just a desperate try to downplay what they have done in the past two years (lying to the public continuously).

    If there would have been problems with the knife, the judges and the jury would have disregarded it, but to them it obviously seemed to be valid evidence.

    Basically what the Knox/Mellas family wants to make us believe is that the earth is flat. Conspiracy and face saving theories without any proof or a shred of evidence, but lots of excuses for the behaviour and the DNA of their daughter. Shame on them!

    To Renee Perrault I would like to say that I think it is generally very honourable from her to organise a fundraiser in order to help. Nevertheless, I consider her choice helping the family of the perpetrator instead of the family of the victim unmoral. The minimum she could have done is to help both paying for their legal fees, which she choose not to. With that act she certainly didn’t gain my sympathy. I find this very provocative to say the least.

  • John Winters

    They just keep coming…..here’s another one from Perugia Murder File, the people who promote the sensationalist murder novel ”Angel Face” by travel writer Barbie Nadeau, published by Tina Brown who is financed by Italian leather specialists Bottega Veneta. Doubtless we will learn that the ever so genuine character ”Michael” from PMF has seen all his promotion and grovelling coming to fruition as Tina and ”BV” agree to publish his first effort entitled ”American girl, Italian cash-cow.”

    Meanwhile, back to Michael at PMF:

    ”Society in many ways replicates nature…there will always be vultures and parasites. Many make their living by chasing ambulances I’m sad to say.”

    I know you think I’m making this up but I’m not. It really is there on the PMF site in black and more creepy black.

  • John Winters

    Somebody else pointed out on the PMF site that by profession, Barbie is actually nothing more than a ”Travel reporter.”
    Unbelievable. The Perugia Murder File site, together with just about every ”guilter” from here to Naples quotes Barbie as if she is some kind of legal demigoddess.
    In fact, her career has involved travelling abroad and writing on her experiences in foreign countries for some travel magazines. In what way does this make her a legal expert whose opinion about a case like Amanda’s should be given any more credence than mine!

    Oh I get it. She’s actually been engaged and published by the Daily Beast conglomerate which started out trying to stay upmarket, publishing articles in its magazine by intellectual dignitaries like Simon Schama, and Britain’s joke Prime Minister Tony Blair but has recently given that up and sunk itself deep in the mire with guttersnipe publications like ‘Angel Face.’ Not so socially prestigious for its owner Tina Brown. But a darn sight more lucrative!

    So keep up the good work Perugia Murder file. Tina’s ”proud” of you.

  • where oh where?

    Hi John, I agree, wtf????? But here is a doosey posted by skeptical bystander, a site administrator, during a heated exchange between her and a new member: “The comment about Meredith having broken up with her boyfriend was confirmed by Barbie Nadeau, and she is a source of information that I trust above nearly all others. There are good reasons for that.”

    I was truly shocked by this statement. Ms. nadeau’s book is full of, to put it mildly, untruths and exaggerations. Why would anyone put their full trust in a person who doesn’t bother to at least attempt to fact check what is being published as a true crime story? If I had trusted barbie before, I know I would have second thoughts after the release of the book.

    Oh, well, to each their own.

  • John Winters

    Hi wow.
    I’ve been trying to register with the JREF site you recommended but so far the moderator hasn’t passed me. I think you’re right about the quiet being a consequence of the big wait for the translated report.
    Meanwhile dear wow, here are a few beauts from the PMF site I thought you might like as we wait:

    PMF: YAY
    We have a new room to play in!
    Thnx.

    John Winters: WTF?

    PMF member: ”Killing without motive carries a lighter sentence? Huh? It’s still killing. Surely this cannot be right.”

    Another PMF member helps out: ”Killing without intent which is mentioned above as manslaughter is causing death without meaning to cause injury but then that eventuality comes about. Note you can be convicted of murder if you just went to assault someone meaning to punch them but they then hit their head and died.”

    John Winters: It’s like the Homer Simpson School of Law!!

    PMF member: ”Not just AK, but these kind of geeky kids filming themselves drinking or pretending to drink in someone’s kitchen, joking about Jews and about getting the video out on youtube. It’s all so mindlessly narcissistic and sadly typical.”

    John Winters: This is a PMF member calling somebody else narcissistic and sadly typical!!!!!

    PMF: ”Did Amanda’s lawyers sit back and claim this, or is Edda speaking out of the side of her face (whatever that expression is)? Side of her mouth?..”

    JW: Er, not exactly.

    I’m going back for more!!

  • where oh where?

    2cents, I’ve read this before and think it’s possibly a misunderstanding on Mr. Knox’s part and not a lie. But I know you will believe what you want to believe. However, what Curt Knox said before a camera has nothing to do with Amanda being guilty or not. If you let the incident color your perception then I think you are being somewhat emotional in your evaluation.

    The knife has a long list of problems beginning with the reason the knife was chosen, the transportation of the knife in a calendar box, the fact it sat in a policeman’s office for a time, and , lastly, the DNA test that started as a common test then changed midstream to a controversial LCN DNA test. We’ll all see but I think the knife will be thrown out as evidence in the end.

  • where oh where?

    Hmmm, things seem awfully quiet this morning. I’ve looked around and all I find is desultory chatter here and there. Everyone waiting for the judges report in English, I guess. But I’ve had a weird feeling for the past few days that something positive is about to happen. Maybe because I’m a flaming optimist, but it persists.

  • JustMy2Cents

    I remember Curt Knox saying in front of the cameras how the double DNA knife had been “thrown out” in court. I would have almost laughed if it wouldn’t have been so disgusting. Amanda Knox was convicted, partly BECAUSE of the double DNA knife and I am left with the question how someone still can maintain the Knox/Mellas family are honest people. They are obviously not. They got caught on numerous lies, just like their daughter.

    It is sickening.

  • Mary H.

    That is very funny, Wow. That is sure a lot of planning and running around for two people who were sitting calmly in the garden when the police arrived unexpectedly.

    I don’t understand why everyone says it’s either a case of Amanda and Raffaele staging the break-in or a case of Rudy actually breaking in. I have always thought Rudy staged the break-in.

    Shoot, I forgot to check out PMF; I keep getting caught up with the die-hards at the Daily Beast. I better get over there and ruin my eyes on the evil black background.

  • where oh where?

    Yeah, John, I’ve begun to think of the discussion board over at pmf as an internet version of a mean girl’s club. The way they went after Mary was classic pmf piffle. I do believe Mary is really getting under their skin.

    But pmf is really funny, also. I just have to post the following by the brilliant michael. He had a “doh” moment and figured out after 2 1/2 years why Amanda and Raffaele chose Filomena’s window to the stage a break-in. You’re going to lol loud enough for me to hear.

    Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: XVI. MAIN DISCUSSION, March 5 –
    I believe I’ve solved one of the little puzzles of this crime and in the process demolished one of the core FOA talking points against the fact that the break-in was staged. But I’m actually rather annoyed with myself that it’s taken so long for the answer to occur to me, for like many puzzles, once you find the answer it’s a ‘DOH!’ moment.

    We have always maintained the break-in was staged, in line with the evidence and the rulings of mulriple courts. One of the core arguments for the staging happens to be one of logic: A true burglar would have entered the cottage through a far easier and safer entry point, the obvious entry point. Instead, the most difficult, exposed and implausible entry point was chosen (Filomena’s window), so being a strong indicator that the break-in was staged.

    The FOA for well over a year have countered this point with the argument that had Raffaele and Amanda staged the crime, being familiar with the cottage, they too would have staged the break-in at the obvious entry point. There is a certain logic to this. The best counter-counter argument I have seen against this to date is “well, they messed up, nobody is perfect and they made a mistake or misremembered the true height of Filomena’s window’.

    Here is the answer, the solution to why they chose Filomena’s window and it’s not a case of they ‘messed up’, on the contrary they thought it out well, but due to their having no other choice except that window. And here’s also the answer as to why they did not ransack Amanda’s room, alone of all the rooms.

    Essential to their plan was Amanda’s being able to return to the cottage the next morning to a scene that could plausibly be argued to not necessitate the immediate hitting of the panic button (calling Meredith, Calling Filomena, calling the police). Therefore, nothing could appear to be amiss at first glance, it could not be ‘obvious’ something was wrong. This was set-up well…Meredith was locked away in her room, Filomena’s shutters were closed over and most of the visible blood was in the little bathroom out the way, which Amanda couldn’t possibly be expected to see unless and until she entered it. That gave her opportunity to amble around checking the place over, putting last minute touches to the clean-up/staging and being there for a long enough time to have a prepared story of what she was doing at the cottage and how she ‘slowly’ became alarmed.

    If they had faked the break-in at the obvious entry point then this plan would be in ruins, for the obvious entry point was the kitchen window and that was slap bang in the middle of the central main communal living area and was completely visible the moment one entered the cottage through the door. Amanda could not claim not to notice this and call the alarm the moment she arrived at the cottage. And if she had gone back the following morning and not raised the alarm and a house mate had returned home early they’d have seen it immediately and asked her what the hell she was playing at…how she could have been home all that time and not have noticed this and called in the alarm.

    For exactly the same reason, this is why they didn’t toss Amanda’s room. It would have been the room one would have expected to have entered almost immediately on entering the cottage and would reasonably have been expected to straight away investigate the rest of the cottage straight away and raise the alarm. Their plan depended on Amanda becoming alarmed by small increments over a period of time. This therefore is another FOA talking point dismissed, since they have argued that surely if they’d staged the break-in they’d have tossed Amanda’s room too, it looking suspicious if they did not…as indeed it does. Not tossing the room was the lesser of two evils. And for exactly the same reason, the couldn’t select Amanda’s window for the break-in entry point.

    The windows of the bathrooms were no good and since they planned to invent a story of worrying about Meredith and attempting to climb up to her window, her window would have been no good. In the end, the selected Filomena’s.”

    John, can you just imagine this conversation with it’s detailed, logical and intricate reasoning taking place between two people who, according to the prosecution, are high on drugs and have recently committed murder?

  • Mary H.

    LOL, John! Your dad and my husband would have gotten along.

    Where oh where, thanks for the tip. How odd. I know a lot of people got really mad at me on the Daily Beast (I did get pretty snarky), and one of them went off in a huff to PMF. I guess I’ll have to go over there and check it out, even though I hate websites that have black backgrounds. That’s what keeps me away from Frank’s, too.

    Your comment on the West Seattle Herald about how long this discussion has been going on was well said.

    I don’t know what’s being said in the current judges’ report about the flick knife, but the very first judge’s report by Claudia Matteini did say Raffaele’s flick knife was the murder weapon. A couple days later, the papers said no DNA had been found on the flick knife — that’s why they had to go to his kitchen and find another one. You can find the sequence of stories about it in the first week or two of coverage by the London Times.

  • John Winters

    Come to think of it though wow, I’m just intrigued about who these people are….
    I can understand a retrograde judicial system getting it all wrong in a case, and a long drawn-out ordeal ensuing for the innocent parties…these things are a fact of modern life, unfortunate but true.
    I can understand people like us getting behind the innocent parties and trying to support them in whatever way we can (even though I really feel like I’m not taking the campaign directly to the people at streets level like I should be to be really effective).
    But who the hell gets behind the dysfunctional judicial system and spends SERIOUS time devoting themselves to ensuring that the public are effectively coerced into accepting the travesty and condemning an innocent person to years in prison. It’s not the Kerchers, which might be in some way understandable.

    My father was an actor and used to stand behind the front door in fear of going out because of the crazies he had to face on an innocent trip to the shops. ”They’re out there” he would whisper to me ironically. If he were here today, I would reply: ”No dad, they’re on a website called Perugia Murder File.”

    (Quiver of horror).

  • where oh where?

    Hmmm, Mary, me thinks you’ve pushed some buttons over at pmf! They’re doing damage control right now and you’ve become their current target. You’re good, girl! Keep up the great work.

  • where oh where?

    Your right John, the pmf site is more than sickening and some who post there seem to be in need of some kind of psychological help. I did read one post somewhere that peg sold the site for over $200,000 to someone writing a book. I haven’t seen this sale verified, however.

  • where oh where?

    Hi John, the post said it was Raffaele’s flick knives. I’m very curious to check this out because I don’t believe the prosecution ever made this claim. But, of course, we’ll not know until the judges report is out in English.

  • John Winters

    Here is a quote from a page referencing Amanda’s prison diary posted by ”Michael” on the Perugia murder file site:

    Amanda writes:

    “I have received letters from fellow inmates and ADMIRERS TELLING ME THAT I AM HOT AND THEY WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH ME. I have also had insulting letters.”

    John Winters says: LOL.

    ”Michael” said:

    (odd that in light of the crimes she doesn’t find letters from strangers saying they want to have sex with her as insulting or inappropriate as well as being in very bad taste at such a moment)

    John Winters writes:

    PUKE!!

  • where oh where?

    mignini is at trial again on the narducci case.

    http://www.umbrialeft.it/node/34053

  • John Winters

    wow writes:

    ”just read on pmf that the judges report says that Raffaele’s knife/knives fit the wounds and the outline on the bed.”

    As far as I’m aware, the kitchen knife ‘murder weapon’ definitely doesn’t fit the impressions on the bed. I’ve seen the photographs of the two being ill-matched. How can there be any question about that?

    Mary, the bambino was Italians generally who condemn Amanda out of infantile frustration. In this instance, their immaturity finds its expression in the vicious assertions of Massei.

  • where oh where?

    Hmmm, just read on pmf that the judges report says that Raffaele’s knife/knives fit the wounds and the outline on the bed. It’s like, duh, most knife’s about that size would fit the wounds and the outline. But they are all rather gleeful about it.

    John, the bambino will definitely need more attention.

  • Prufrock

    @Mary H:

    “Yesterday I dreamt that Amanda will be released in September without having to go through the appeals trial.”

    Girl, you gotta tell me what you guys are on …. ‘coz I want some too.

    “If your translators are not getting paid, they are missing out on a good deal of money and you are getting quite a bargain. Native translators are expensive. Why they would do it for someone they never met is very strange.”

    perhaps the translators should forward their invoice to the PR payables section; after all you pay all your puppet media to disclose only what you want …

    have you approached David Letterman ?

  • Mary H.

    I love your post, Wow. And I’m glad you linked it because it allowed me to find where the conversation had continued on that site. :)

  • where oh where?

    I posted the following this morning on:
    http://www.westseattleherald.com/forum/amanda-knox’s-persona-explored-new-upgraded-websites-1?page=2

    Judges Report
    The translation for “The New Bible” for the guilters is about to be released. Since some have already seen it we’re already getting the mantra of “Being There”. It’s funny, really, when you think about it. Anyone who questions “The Bible” gets the, “Were you there?”, like it’s some kind of religious experience if you “were There” at the trial so you could see and hear “The Message” in person. “Were you There?” “I wasn’t There” but “She was There” and truly “Knows!”. “He wasn’t There,” so he has No Right to question those “Who were There”. We don’t question those “Who were There”, we prefer to wear blinders and follow “The Word of those Who were There” because we weren’t “There”.

    It’s funny, this is what, the third or forth “Bible” to come along and each one is, for the guilters, unquestionably, 100% right, even if it’s different from past Bibles. Ever changing stories, anyone? Sound familiar?

    The guilters call anyone who knows Amanda and Rafffaele are innocent “the Foakers” as if it was an insult. Actually, however, even though I’m not an official member of the “Friends of Amanda”, I’m proud to wear that name and more than proud to be grouped with so many people with the ability to reason, the need to question and the hard won knowledge that being “There” or not makes absolutely no difference in the reliability of the evidence, witnesses or conclusions of this trial.

  • Mary H.

    …”the anti-logic ”’rationale’…”

    Well put, my friend. And every day, their cries for Amanda’s supporters to “be logical” grow louder.

  • Mary H.

    Thanks, Billy. I read the page on The View from Wilmington, and I read his pieces from March, too. It’s extraordinary and frightening what Mignini has been allowed to get away with. It makes me wonder whether the attempt to topple their “state within a state” is going to be successful.

    Yesterday I dreamt that Amanda will be released in September without having to go through the appeals trial.

    There is so much well-reasoned information available on all of these great websites! After spending the last couple of days reading posts by bullies and idiots on the Daily Beast, I am now confident that the only people left who believe that a guilty verdict is correct are those who are willingly and willfully ignorant.

  • John Winters

    For goodness sake Al Fhak, sorry I mean Prufrock, get over yourself. You can’t still be thinking that people who are even now (when the heat’s off), still writing about and discussing Amanda’s case, are anybody but people who are only concerned for Amanda’s welfare, not Italy-bashers.
    We recognise that our dear Amanda is the victim of a travesty of justice, and we would still be writing on these blogs with the same vehemence on her behalf if this travesty were taking place in San Francisco. Location only becomes relevant for us when we can’t read the language of 427386 page reports on the case.

    This kind of thinking has actually permeated blog discussion especially where the anti-Amanda camp attempts to introduce a racist element when they talk about ”blame it on the black guy.” How stupid can you get. In order to assert that Amanda in some racist fashion, ”blamed it on the black guy,” you would first have to belong to the camp which believes her to be guilty and therefore present with Rudy Guede at the murder scene. In order to blame it on the black guy then, Rudy Guede, the person Amanda didn’t blame it on, would have to be white.

    In the anti-logic ”rationale” which has come to permeate discussion of this case, this is typical, and ironically in a logical sense, suggests that people who bring up the race card are actually making a logical case for Amanda’s innocence, asserting with her, that black was white; that a man who couldn’t have been there was there.

    Sorry you camp guys. The reason Amanda suggested Lumunba was there was because she didn’t know who the hell was there, not having been present herself.

  • Mary H.

    Here’s one from Houston, too, Pru.

    “June 10 (Bloomberg) — Houston prosecutors may have more difficulty winning convictions after an investigator reported last week that crime-lab chemists in the fourth-largest U.S. city faked results to help police in at least four cases.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aR0VRkE32Te0&refer=us

    As I told someone on the Daily Beast, if you go to Google and enter “faked lab results” you will get over a million more.

    I don’t recall any of us claiming anything about “…pristine, wholesome, faultless, rigid, vigorous, independent, unbiased, uncontaminated DNA testing in the US,” but if you say so….

  • Prufrock

    @Mary H; where oh where, john winters, billy ryan:

    “SAN FRANCISCO — The San Francisco Police Department drug-testing lab will remain closed indefinitely until security and staffing issues outlined in an independent audit released Tuesday are resolved…..

    Because of the stressful and unmanageable caseloads, there was a “fertile environment” for tampering with evidence, police Chief George Gascón said at a news conference Tuesday.”
    Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Audit-faults-security-at-the-SFPD-drug-lab-89548572.html#ixzz0kPE90kPw

    Hmmmm … so much for pristine, wholesome, faultless, rigid, vigorous, independent, unbiased, uncontaminated DNA testing in the US …..

    yes, the land of big mouths, hypocrisy and the land of the free ……

  • billyryan

    mary h go to the “injusticeinperugia.org”hit the recentnews&updates then it is the first link”view from wilmington” Its a discussion on the prosecutions refusal to release the electronic data that underliesthe dna test results. Professor dan crane states that this refusal by the prosecution is something that is almost unheard of worldwide today,read the artical and see what you think

  • Prufrock

    @Mary H:

    “It’s been done, Prufrock.”

    no it hasn’t. I was referring to which judicial system a prisoner, [especially if there is some doubt to the verdict], defence lawyers and organisations like the Innocent Project would prefer to be under, the italian or the US ?

    I would never presume to even waste a nanogram of effort to comment on the verdict or otherwise of K/S to you and your associates …. of course she’s innocent. You”re right and everyone else is wrong.

    “Check your local TV talking heads and many, many websites.”

    Yes, of course. “where oh where” is Larry King, Geraldo Rivera, Oprah Winfrey and the rest … like?

    Have you approached David Letterman ? or is he a little too expensive for you?

  • Mary H.

    Thank you, Where. I wish I had saved all of them; it would be hilarious to go back over them.

    Billy, I am looking on injustice but I don’t know which link to click on. I will keep exploring, but if you find this, can you elaborate? Thanks.

    John, I’m not sure which bambino you’re referring to, but if it’s you, hug hug. I will read the article and get back to you.

  • where oh where?

    LOL, Mary! How big is your collection? No, don’t tell me. I see all that is shoveled your way and can guess. But you always respond with calm reasoning and an insight that seems to drive some to distraction. Love the response to “someone who knows”.

    John, I read the article. Take a deep breath. But I’m with you about the “untold problems”. I wish there was a way I could help in the translation. Since I can’t I try to have patience with the process and be thankful that it is being done.

    In the meantime I got these 2 links from pmf about the Narducci case being tried this coming week from what I can tell. The articles are in Italian and I haven’t had time to get them translated.

    http://www.corrieredellumbria.it/news.asp?id=29

    http://www.umbrialeft.it/node/34053

  • billyryan

    john winters you mention the similarities between the guildford four and the case of amanda knox,there is one other similarity that you may not be aware of.there was three irishmen and the english girlfriend of one of them,she just became collateral damage and was framed with them
    one other very interesting thing in relation to that case,an ira gang was arrested a few years later they admitted that they planted the guildford bombs and that the four people serving life for that crime were totally innocent.the young girl who must have been about amandas age and the three innocent irish men were still kept in jail for another ten years
    if any of ye or me held someone against their will for twenty four hours we would face jail time,yet if you are a member of a prosecution team you can distort evidence tell lies put someone who you know is innocent in jail for years and never face consequences
    there is a great link over on the”injustice in perugia”site on the prosecution witholding of data in relation to the testing of the knife blade and the brastrap.this will become centrestage in the appeal and i think is key to the whole thing. I hope mary h where oh where and john winters read it as soon as possible and give your analisis

  • John Winters

    Somebody please hold me in their arms and stroke my head.
    As we are all aware, the language thing and getting to see Massei’s 42734 pages of writing is causing us untold problems in terms of pace and keeping abreast of the authoritarian handle less scrupulous interests have on the way the case is being discussed as a consequence. But I have just read in a (thankfully) very unbiased article from the British BBC on the report, that ‘the judges’ have gone into lengthy detail to explain why they think the footprint in the bedroom under the pillow is a woman’s.

    Be prepared people. The bambino needs more attention.

  • Mary H.

    Great question, where. I will be interested in seeing the answer. Oh, and I believe I got a “knucklehead” that was intended for you. Do you want it back or shall I keep it for my collection?

    Prufrock wrote: “So enough for today’s tutorial. Your assignment is to interview US prisoners, defence lawyers, including K/S’s, and the Innocent Project and get their feedback.”

    It’s been done, Prufrock. Check your local TV talking heads and many, many websites. The majority are solidly in favor of acquitting Amanda. Well, except for the prisoners. You can understand…

  • where oh where?

    Hmmm, prufrock, my view of the Italian judiciary was partly formed by the same al-fakh/baleno and ivstitia/commissario montalbano that Mary speaks of in her post of April 6, 8:02PM. Ives, in particular, is fond of long lectures, similar to yours.

    I’ll paraphrase (you can see the originals upthread) what was said. The current judiciary in Italy was formed after World War II in response to the way Mussolini illegally used the courts to attack some of those who opposed him. Basically, it was made an independent entity that governs and polices itself with no outside checks and balances. This was done so that no one in the government would be able to manipulate the courts.

    I asked (again paraphrasing) if this kind of power might lead to the possible formation of lots of mini-Mussolini-like judges and prosecutors around the country.

    The response (paraphrased) was that the built in appeals would take care of this.

    This implied to me that, indeed, the judiciary didn’t trust itself to get things right the first time around. And is it not true that the educational status of the lay judges in the two appeals trials gets progressively higher, implying that the lay judges from the first trial are not all that trustworthy in correctly assessing and interpreting the evidence of a case?

  • John Winters

    Prufrock said:

    ”…most Westminster influenced judiciaries, extend appeals ONLY on either legal errors…”

    Interesting you should have brought up the British in this instance Prufrock. But I think you’ll find the case of ”the Guildford Four,” who were all innocent but convicted in 1985 nevertheless of several bombings in Britain on behalf of the Provisional IRA, and served 14 years in prison for their innocence, is rather closer to Amanda’s experience. When finally granted an appeal, the defense exposed the most heinous tampering of evidence, where Perugian-style ‘notes’ from interviews had been written after the interviews and contained obviously fabricated and damning details. The four, like Amanda following Cavalese and Lozano in Italy, had actually been convicted on the wave of resentment felt across Britain following the bombings, and the witch-hunt press-fest which gave this resentment voice and sent the first group of Irish people hauled in by the police to prison for something they had no part in.

  • Prufrock

    @Mary H:

    “If even the judiciary doesn’t believe in the first trial, why should anyone else?””

    It’s not the judiciary that appeals; it’s the defendant that has that ‘right’ to exercise it at their discretion, knucklehead.

    The US has the same legal right; eg, Rubin Carter’s case whose case stretched over 20 year period, was tried twice, appealed twice and finally the case was overturned by the Federal Court, only AFTER, the Supreme Court refused to accept the prosecution’s application.

    The ONLY difference between the italian and the US appeal process is that the italians see the appeal process as a constitutional right whereas the US, and most Westminster influenced judiciaries, extend appeals ONLY on either legal errors, new evidence (see Brady rule) or where the jury’s verdict is considered to be manifestly unjust or unsafe. BUT, the onus of proof is on the defendant which makes the task very difficult given there is NO explanation as to the guilty verdict. It’s simply ‘Guilty’.

    So enough for today’s tutorial. Your assignment is to interview US prisoners, defence lawyers, including K/S’s, and the Innocent Project and get their feedback.

    “Likewise, the longer the case is tried, the longer those paychecks keep coming in.”

    Yeah … lawyers never lose out, that’s for sure. And, PR machines too, who will milk the Knox’s all the way to the bank.

    Are you related to ‘where oh where’? You seem to have a similar psychosis.

  • Mary H.

    Where oh where wrote: “But all I can think of is, if the Italian government believed so much in their judicial system, why would there be so many appeals? If even the judiciary doesn’t believe in the first trial, why should anyone else?”

    I agree, Wow. What stake do lawyers have in getting it right the first time around when they know two automatic appeals are waiting in the wings? Likewise, the longer the case is tried, the longer those paychecks keep coming in.

  • Mary H.

    Speaking of the translation, Where oh where, I received a message this evening on the West Seattle Herald blog from one “Someone who knows.” I can’t be certain, but judging from the authoritative tone, it may have been the venerable Sir Peter “Jabba the Hutt” Quennell himself. He wrote:

    ——————————-

    Mary H provides erroneous information

    A group of individuals with the requisite skills level in Italian and English has been working hard to translate the Massei sentencing report. It is very long and very difficult, and all of our translators have “day jobs” as well. They are not being paid for their efforts. They are doing this as a service to the public, in memory of Meredith Kercher.

    I am not sure how you can ask them to hurry up so that you and others not fluent in Italian can read it, and then state confidently that the report is filled with speculation, lies, contradictions and what not. How would you know?

    Thanks for refraining from spreading falsehoods about the team of volunteer translators working on this document. In addition, the individual you mention in your post is not, to my knowledge, a member of the team. I hope your sources for the rest of your beliefs are more solid than this!

    ——————
    My response:

    Translation issues

    Wow, and a gracious good afternoon to all of you, too.

    “Someone who knows,” you might know Al-Fakh as Baleno or as one of the many other pseudonyms he entertains us with. If he is not one of your translators, along with his California pal Ivstitia/Commissario Montalbano, then he has been telling tales out of school.

    If your translators are not getting paid, they are missing out on a good deal of money and you are getting quite a bargain. Native translators are expensive. Why they would do it for someone they never met is very strange. They might as well be doing it for the memory of Marilyn Monroe or Princess Di.

    My comment made several days ago for Al-Fakh to hurry up was facetious (hence the exclamation point). There are, however, many people who are anxious to read the document and will appreciate his efforts. I will read it somewhere down the line, I suppose, but yes, I do expect it to be as fanciful as previous deposits by the judges have been.

    I never spread falsehoods. I am interested in sharing the truth with people, not withholding it from them a la the truejustice site.

  • Prufrock

    @where oh where?

    “Hmmm, what’s that? Buzzing? Ah, nothing but an irritating noise.”

    Ouch ! I feel so zinged. Bereft of not only logic but also wit; what a comeback.

    You’re on life support, obviously.

  • where oh where?

    Hmmm, what’s that? Buzzing? Ah, nothing but an irritating noise.

  • Prufrock

    @where oh where:

    “But all I can think of is, if the Italian government believed so much in their judicial system, why would there be so many appeals? If even the judiciary doesn’t believe in the first trial, why should anyone else?”

    Are you for real? The right to appeal in instilled in every judicial system including yours, brains.

    The major difference in the italian judicial system is that the defendant has a constitutional right to 2 appeals, as opposed to your system where a judge decides whether there is ‘legal’ reason to ‘allow’ an appeal to be lodged.

    So for someone that to claims K’s innocence I would have thought that you would be pleased; but no, just criticise something you don’t understand.

    What are you on? A weed or life support?

  • Prufrock

    @billyryan:

    “the defence has forthy five days to lodge their appeal”

    no bud, I think you’ll find that the defence lawyers have 45 days to ‘decide’ to appeal, that is, they have until the 19 April to advise the court that they will appeal.

  • billyryan

    the report came out on the fifth of march the defence has forthy five days to lodge their appeal.that date is the 19 of april.tomorrow forthnight
    there will probally be an attempt to get pre appeal release at that court hearing.the reaction of the judge at that hearing will probally give an incite as to wheather the italions are capable of reaching a just verdict
    I think amandas defence team have to interview someone inside capianna prison.a cellmate of one of the witnesess for the prosecution,like rudi the prosecution witness has been talking about why he gave false evidence against amanda and raffaela.

  • where oh where?

    Yeah, John, Mary, I know the report means diddly as far as Amanda and Raffaele’s innocence, but I still want to read it. I know it won’t be too much longer.

    But I do think the report is the main reason the guilters are becoming even more vitriolic lately. They think they have the upper hand. But all I can think of is, if the Italian government believed so much in their judicial system, why would there be so many appeals? If even the judiciary doesn’t believe in the first trial, why should anyone else?

  • Prufrock

    @where oh where? (indeed),

    “I want a chance to argue the point with the full knowledge of what the judges have written.”

    The italian supreme court must be trembling in their boots and AK’s defense lawyers waiting in anticipation.

    TJMK should have the complete translation ready just for you shortly.

    be good.

  • Prufrock

    @Mary H:

    “Now, John, yours is a perfectly good name;”

    …. I prefer James or David or maybe Dylan.

  • Prufrock

    @where oh where? (indeed),

    “I want a chance to argue the point with the full knowledge of what the judges have written.”

    Really? Wow, I can only imagine the excitement of Knox’s defence lawyers in having you advise them.

    The TJMK site is due to have the entire translation completed just for you, very shortly.

    Keep up the good work, ok?

  • John Winters

    Italian judicial system = FLAKY.

  • Mary H.

    I’m sure it doesn’t prove anything except that the judges love to fantasize and the jury panel was either asleep or too cowed to raise any doubts.

  • where oh where?

    I know I shouldn’t be impatient but I sure wish the judges report translation will be coming soon. I know several posters have seen some or all the translation and keep hinting at what’s in it. It’s especially maddening when it’s one of the guilters bragging about how it really proves Amanda and Raffaele are guilty. I want a chance to argue the point with the full knowledge of what the judges have written.

  • Mary H.

    Now, John, yours is a perfectly good name; in fact it is one of my favorite men’s names. Very distinguished, and my father’s name as well.

  • where oh where?

    Hi John, when I was little I was sooo jealous of the Johns and Carolines and Marys, h*ll, even the Tonys. Kids with those names got to buy all the neat key chains, trinkets and bicycle tags you see everywhere with names on them. I would search, I knew in vain, thinking where oh where oh where?????

  • where oh where?

    tony, if your still reading,

    Unlike you, I am not on the fence and I know Amanda is innocent, 100%. Because I know this, I know something is dreadfully wrong with the police/forensic/judicial system in Perugia, Italy. Why would I, or others who believe the same way, ever want to place our trust into the court’s hands to fix a problem they are responsible for in the first place without a lot of very, very, very, very loud protest? If the problem could be fixed quickly, that might be one thing, but there is the possibility that two innocent people could spend 6 years in prison for what? And why?

    Innocent=Amanda & Raffaele were NOT there=no evidence possible at all, none, zilch, zero, nada

    So, where did the so called “mountain of evidence” against them come from?

  • John Winters

    I’m really jealous of you Where. Look at my name, it’s really dull and boring. My parents were like 163 when I was born so when I say my early life was classical…….I mean it! People used to offer to help me on and off the bus when I was like 35!! I was an only child, but if I had had a sister, they would have called her Caroline or something. Your parents would have called her ‘Something’ which would have been far more interesting!

  • John Winters

    Tony said:

    ”Amanda Knoxes supporters are her worst enemies. With all due respect you are all doing her more harm than good.”

    You dig the irony Rick?

  • Tony

    Well Mary I have bitten the dust. I am certainly out. I actually hate writing. Whether any of you believe me or not, I have tried to steer you in a positive direction. I obviously don’t know whether or not Amanda is guilty. In any event I can only wish her the best. The truth is I know I should never have commented on this case from day one. I should have minded my own business, which is what I intend to do now. So good night, good bye, and believe it or not I do wish you all the best.

    Good Bye to all of you:+)

  • Mary H.

    I was just about to write, “And another one bites the dust,” then here you are again, Tony! You sure do like to keep us guessing with your mixed messages.

    WoW: LoL. :)

  • Tony

    Hi Kitt,

    Well said:+)

  • where oh where?

    PS How do you know my name isn’t Where oh Where? I was born in the 60′s and my parents were hippies who kept asking that question about where to start their commune. It became a joke between them and then I was born and became the Where. They settled where Where was born. Most of my friends call me Wow or Wowwie. My brother’s name is Rainbow, Rain or Bow to his friends, Bowwie to me to rhyme with Wowwie. Our cousin is Sunshine Fairlight, Shine for short. I hated the name growing up but now all I can think is, Ya gotta love those hippies!

    So, I guess I’m really brave, also.

  • where oh where?

    Hi brave anthony/tony/no last name,

    You are the emotional ranter here. Your posts are so long I get bored and just sorta skim through them. Short and quick might be better, have more effect. But…..

    You all do exactly what you want to do. It has absolutely nothing to do with me.

    Good luck and take care:+)

  • kitt

    Please look past the distraction of the media frenzy. There have been many articles printed over the past two years that are filled with misinformation. All of this is just noise. It’s all a big distraction. Look past the distraction. Silence the noise. Take some personal time, and look at the actual facts of this case. Meredith and her family deserve justice. Imprisoning two innocent people will bring neither peace nor justice for Meredith Kercher. Please visit: injustice in perugia org

  • Tony

    Hi Where oh Where,

    Don’t change the subject – what is your name?

    If indeed the Italians fired the first shots in this, surely you are mature and wise enough not to lower yourself to the level of such behavior. I’m not sure if you realize but all this Italian bashing is like children arguing and calling each other names. it’s totally irrational. I am old enough to know that when someone abuses you, it is always best not to react – just ignore it ( it’s almost never easy to do that )- just stay focussed, and you will win. In my experience whenever you give a person a dose of their own medicine, it just ends up blowing up in your own face.

    If I was your father, and you were falsely imprisoned for murder, I would naturally be in a mess, but I would like to think that I would be rational enough as to do everything I do through my lawyers, getting the best legal advice I possibly could, and i would like to think that I would act solely on that advice, and not act irrationally or emotionally and do anything that be to the detriment of you my daughter in prison. I would like to think that I would put you best interests first, and not give into emotion. I have learned in life that ” the emotional thing is always the wrong thing to do “.

    And with all due respect to everyone on the Knox side, emotion has been ruling the heads. There are many instances that are ” bullshit ” and extremely dubious on the part of the prosecution. I don’t agree with many things that have been put forward against Amanda. But every now and then the Knox camp talk pure stupid emotional garbage, which is very sad. Because if you keep cool heads and focus on the facts of the case you would do a lot better. You would help Amanda, not hurt her.

    You and all other Knox supporters may decide to paint e or view me as a bad guy, but I’m not. I know that I always do my best. My dad used to say ” if you can’t help – dont’ hurt “. I never try to do anyone any harm. You don’t know me. You have no idea what I have been through in life. I am not talking shit. From the first moment I corresponded I have tried to give her honest advice. I have even offered to talk/write Mary one on one, without an audience, but she declined saying something to the effect that she preferred an audience.

    The knox family have showed tremendous support for their daughter and cousin. I find that truly remarkable. I just find they have basically aimed their fire in the wrong direction, and instead of helping their daughter cousin, they have instead wasted their resources and tremendous efforts, and probably harmed Amanda. As things stand at present even if Amanda is freed on appeal, she has been turned into a pretty much ” cult figure ” for a lot of unstable and dysfunctional people – but perhaps more importantly she, no matter what she does in the future there will most likely always be the question hanging over her in the eyes of many of the public ” is she a murderess? “, and that will be the case even in her own neighborhood.

    If Amanda is innocent she needs a lot of help. Real help. People with cool heads working quietly and diligently on her side, not ” idiots ” or self professed geniuses ranting and raving emotional garbage.

    I’m not going to argue with any of you.

    You all do exactly what you want to do. It has absolutely nothing to do with me.

    Good luck and take care:+)

  • where oh where?

    Hmmm, brave tony, don’t you think that many Americans feel the same way as Italians? The Italian media fired the first shots. Go back, read what was said about Amanda. She was called all sorts of names and vilified beyond belief. And things were said like, eeh, what can you expect, she’s American after all. (You could almost imagine that Italian, well-whatever, shrug.)

    And how would you like your daughter being called all the horrible names and tarred with all the horrendous actions attributed to Amanda? Would you sit there, thinking, well, I’ll just let the courts sort this out? If you are that kind of man I would think you are not the sort of father I would ever want, one that would sit passively by and let the media and the courts destroy me. And do absolutely nothing.

  • Tony

    Hi Billy, Mary H and WoW

    Yes my name is Tony, and it is the only name I have used here as I think Mary H can attest, and I once again laugh Billy because from my point of view I have felt it is a total waste of time discussing anything with many of you. However I was determined not to ” jump the gun ” and pre-judge the situation, but having done my best to view things dispassionately and read the Knox supporters posts here and on other blogs I must conclude that it is truly a waste of my time discussing anything with any of you.

    As Mary H knows i used the name Antonio on the examiner blog. By the way Billy I am exactly who I say I am. Is your name really Billy Ryan? Are you really Irish? Is Mary H really your first name and initial of your surname? Obviously WoW are obviously hiding your true identity. I have the balls the stand up and be a man. I’m not hiding from people. I am who I say I am, and you cowards are peddling garbage anonymously to any one who is naive and gullible to believe you. You’re just shoveling shit. You truly are a very scary bunch of people.

    Bye Bye Babies and try to stop talking through your anuses. It’s time you changed your nappies LOL

    Good luck and good bye, I have better things to do. I have a life, perhaps all of you should get one too:+). Alternatively you can all go bullshit anyone who is stupid enough to listen to your ranting, but I’m not doing it anymore – I’m out. With that said I believe there is a lot of truth in many of the facts you raise in relation to Amanda’s case, but your anti Italian and Meginni ranting and driveling
    simply undermines and overshadows all the genuine points you make. Mary H, as I told you from the first moment I corresponded with you, Amanda Knoxes supporters are her worst enemies. With all due respect you are all doing her more harm than good.

    By the way people I have genuinely done my best to view things objectively, but when you people have managed to alienate me – wow you are clearly all masters of public relations LOL

    Finally I would again like to wish you all including Amanda and her family all the very best of everything for the future. I obviously don’t know if she murdered Meredith or not, and I certainly would not like to be on any jury in this case. There are many instances where I see me in Amanda, and where I can understand the different culture that exists between America and Ireland, and I’m sure tat difference is much greater between the US and Italy. Also there is the difference in language, and of course the difference in nuances in translation which can lead to problems and misinterpretations. I hope Amanda did not do it, and with the hope that she is innocent I truly hope she is home with her family soon. WoW you say something about a photo of Amanda in an electric chair – THAT IS DISGUSTING. I was not aware of that. However I understand that a photo of the bloody bathroom where Amanda took her shower was released to the media, which gave the false impression that the bathroom was covered in blood, where as you know there was indeed very little blood in that bathroom, and Amanda’s explanation is in my eyes plausible. There are many things that truly stink about this case. But as Mary H knows I have advised from day one that the Knox PR campaign and supporters should stop attacking Italy and it’s citizens, and focus your attention in the court room. In that I know i am right. The more you shout at the Italians, the more they are going to resist you. people generally ” Mirror ” what’s in front of them – meaning people generally treat you the way you treat them. I have never bayed for Amanda’s blood, I have never to made any negative references to her sexual activity, her drug use, her desire to have fun. I know you won’t listen to me, but let me give you one last piece of advice if you believe Amanda to be innocent – ” Shut up and focus. Do the business in the courtroom. Stop arguing and especially stop insulting people non stop on these blogs. I suspect there are many people on both sides who, if they’re not being paid, have nothing better to do than post on these blogs, pass the time, and perhaps simply enjoy seeing their words in print and provoking reactions from other people.

    Well I’ve rambled on long enough.

    Good Luck and take care of yourselves. Life is short enjoy it.

  • Mary H.

    Tony wrote: “If the police destroyed a number of computer hard drives, beat Amanda, and of course leaked information to the press – then all of those things are totally wrong, but that is not Nazism or White Supremacism – that is simple police corruption – sadly that exists in every country even Ireland.”

    Tony doesn’t seem to realize that Nazism and White Supremacy movements are made up of many individual acts of police corruption and similar wrongs. They just look a lot more organized in hindsight than at the time they are taking place.

  • billyryan

    I believe amanda knox and raffaela sollecito are innocent. I believe a grave miscarriage of justice has taken place in perugia.I believe the judge in milan who stood up to mignini and sentenced him to seventeen months in jail is the one judge that history will be kind to
    tony you might think that everyone but yourself is wrong,you alone know the full facts.where oh where is right trying to reason with you is a waist of time.you are now posting as “tony”i just wonder if you posted as someone else on this blog prior to the arrival of tony

  • where oh where?

    Hi tony,
    Your observations aren’t worth the time it would take me to reply. Have you taken your lectures to pmf or tjmk? Many of the posters there sling mud, slander, lies and half-truths daily. Did you see the photo of Amanda dead and strapped in the electric chair? Many thought it was funny and “artsy”. But even one of the moderators thought it was a bit much and asked the poster to remove the photo. After some haggling the poster removed the photo from the blog but made the photo his avatar.

  • Tony

    Hi Billy,

    Please forgive me but I have to laugh. You are apparently comparing the Italian police and judicial system with either the Nazis, White Supremacists, or Communists. There are so many things possibly wrong with the police in this case, and likewise with the Italian judicial system in general. But to make the comparison you have made is ridiculous.

    Just look for a moment on the side of this case you are firmly entrenched on. One of my first observations of this case ironically is the fact that the Knox campaign has behaved exactly as the Nazis did with the Jews. The Knox campaign have blatantly attempted to whip up the American people into a frenzy against the Italians – saying that there has been an anti-American bias to this case. Please read what John Winters just wrote in his last comment – talk about Nazism. In truth you are on the side of people behaving exactly like the Nazis, and so far you are behaving exactly in the same manner. I am not trying to offend you or anyone else but as I’m sure you already know, and so does everyone else – ignorant, backward always lash out and blame other people for their problems, and make a scapegoat out of someone. The Nazis did it with the Jews and the Knox campaign ( part of which you are ) are now doing the exact same thing with the Italians. So Billy you are actually agreeing with me personally that your own actions and those of the Knox clan are dare I say ” sick, depraved, ignorant, backward ” – the list just goes on. Thank you Billy.

    If the police destroyed a number of computer hard drives, beat Amanda, and of course leaked information to the press – then all of those things are totally wrong, but that is not Nazism or White Supremacism – that is simple police corruption – sadly that exists in every country even Ireland.

    As far as Miginni taking legal action against ” x ” people, well Billy lets put it this way – If someone slandered you or libeled you taking away your good name, and you knew either those people were lying or misrepresenting the facts and that you could prove they were lying – What would you do? Defamation of character is a very serious matter. No one can get away with that with impunity. In such circumstances would you turn the other cheek and let those people continue to spout what you know to be untrue. Billy you and I both know, as indeed everyone else who wants to be honest with themselves – you would not, and neither would I expect you to. So why should Miginni do what neither you, me, or anyone else would do. The Knox clan and Amanda are not a special case. If they are stupid etc to cross the line with MIginni, then they must be prepared to accept the consequences. Miginni is equally entitled like you, me and everyone else to protect and defend his good name.

    By the way I am not anti the Knoxes or Amanda. I am anti police corruption etc., and indeed corruption on all levels. I am also against Nazism and White Supremacism no matter in what guise it presents itself. I am anti ” Bullying, intimidation, pressure be it political or otherwise ( corruption ) attempting to influence a trial in any country, and likewise I’m against any attempt to buy the outcome of any trial in any country. I am also against people who are or profess to be ” Holier than thou “. I generally find that in many instances many of the so called extremely religious people are the most warped, twisted and dysfunctional anyone could ever meet. The list of what I am anti goes on and on. And of course I’m also anti ” BulLshit “. When someone tells me a ” yarn ” that doesn’t add up, I tend to switch off and ignore it, because when someone lies to you ,me or anyone else, the liar is treating us as if we are stupid. That’s not good – not to mention totally disrespectful.

    By the way Billy, have a good night:+)

    Good luck:+)

  • billyryan

    why tony did the police turn off the recording before they forced amanda to say the name patrick mumumba.in the next two weeks they built up an airtight case against patrick.why did the police destroy four hardrives of computers why was the other dna on the braclasp not identified.why does your hero mignini feel the need to start an investigation or a defamanation case against anyone who disagrees with him,why does he not camley present his evidence
    The police leeked to the press in the early days that there was a cleanup in the cottage,yet provided no evidence of it at the trial.why was lcn testing only done on the knife from raffaela apartment
    the guilty verdict in this case was reached the same way as hitler found six million jews guilty,stalin how many million more,and the same way guilty verdicts were brought in against thousands of black men in the southern states of the us,because of the prediceses of those who sat in judgement of them

  • John Winters

    Amanda Knox is an American girl who has been falsely accused of murder in a country where scientific method is something terribly clever only practised by very clever people like Patricia Steffanoni who wear white coats and look very clever in photographs taken of them in ”laboratories” and put in ”police magazines” which are actually publications for horse traders operating out of ice cream country dressed up to look like the ”cops” in Hollywood movies which they spend most of their time watching when they should be not beating up little girls because they still feel spiteful about Cavalese and the Lozano fiasco.

    Please help us try to liberate her from this hostage-taking situation.

  • Tony

    Hi Mary H

    By the way, when a complaint is made to a cop, he/she is obligated to investigate and take it seriously. Cops do not have it at their discretion to decide what complaints/allegations/accusations they take seriously. Of course the law may be different in your neighborhood than in the rest of the world.

    Instead of you blaming Amanda for falsely accusing Patrick, you are actually blaming the police ( for believing her, after all in the same statement she admitted she was present in the house/apartment while Patrick was in Meredith’s room and covering her ears to try to block out the screams ) for doing their job and acting on her accusation – WHICH THEY HAD TO DO.

    For you to say to me ” Tony. It’s a bore to have to constantly be correcting you, but worse, it makes me worry about what your major malfunction is. ” – well now Mary that’s not polite. It’s actually offensive. There is no point in getting nasty with me. You’re just letting yourself down, and of course you’re letting Amanda down.

    I have tried to always be polite to you, even the other night when you had me over for supper:+). Did I complain about your lousy cooking? Nope – I said absolutely nothing. I just smiled and pretended everything was great:+).

    So before you get your knickers in a knot again.

    Please have a good night,

    By the way you can avoid correcting me by simply not replying. I would of course would like to take this opportunity to wish you, everyone here, Amanda and her family all the very best of everything for the future:+)
    Take care,

    Brad Pitt:+)

  • Mary H.

    I know you’re not being a smart ass, Tony. I’m wondering why you spent so many words arguing with something that didn’t make sense to you, though. If it didn’t make sense, then everything you wrote about it is what you projected into it.

    As you pointed out recently, you believe Amanda was arrested because of her “LIES.” We know from Amanda’s testimony that during the interrogation, the police called her a “stupid liar.” And you claim here again today that Amanda lied: “The truth is the police had no choice but to act on her accusation. It wasn’t their fault that she lied.”

    If you really want to view things objectively, how about, for a minute, taking the side of the Perugian police during the interrogation? Tell me, what is it that makes you believe this “lying” girl when she says Patrick committed the murder? Why do you believe her now, when you didn’t believe her before? Really good cops should be able to tell the difference between lies and truth, don’t you think? So why don’t you know Amanda is lying when she says Patrick committed the crime? Could it be because you choose to believe it?

    Next, what do you, as Tony, think about police running out in the middle of the night based on the word of a “known liar?” Even based on the word of a sworn informant, it hardly ever happens in civilized legal systems. Police usually investigate thoroughly and take other precautions against being accused of false arrest, but not in this case. Another choice by police.

    Was the “liar’s” word really so powerful that she could make the police sidestep all protocol? If so, why didn’t they believe her the next day when she said she was mistaken about being at the crime scene? Again, could it have been because they chose not to? How convenient for them.

    The point of my previous post was to imply that most police officers would not want the world to know that 1.) they were fooled by a liar or 2.) they broke the law to act on an unfounded accusation made by a liar. That is probably one reason most police departments don’t invite the press over to the crime scene and share every little detail of the murder investigation with them. The police’s attitude is usually to prevent news consumers from seeing that any mistakes were made, as it tends to undermine the taxpayers’ confidence in their police.

    My comment was ironic, not literal. I was not admitting that Amanda accused an innocent man, I was assuming the point of view of the police, who do claim Amanda accused an innocent man. Again, I ask, why would they essentially brag to the public that they were such bad cops? That they were so weak and feeble as to be tricked and manipulated by Amanda? THAT’S the part that doesn’t make sense to ME.

    And Tony, I really wish you would stop accusing me of lying, twisting the truth, misrepresenting the facts, torturing people and being sick and perverted, Tony. It’s a bore to have to constantly be correcting you, but worse, it makes me worry about what your major malfunction is.

  • Tony

    Hi Mary H,

    CORRECTION:

    ” Because if you are defending someone you know or believe to be GUILTY and extending the torture of Meredith’s family, for money or whatever reason, then that is a sick and perverted thing to do to the Kerchers. “

  • Tony

    Hi Mary H,

    Just a quick note. You say

    ” Imagine WANTING people to know a little girl made you run out and falsely arrest and imprison someone. You would think they’d be too ashamed to admit it. ”

    So Mary you are finally admitting that Amanda actually did accuse an innocent man, and that the police acted on her false accusation.

    I’m genuinely trying to view things objectively. I have tried desperately to view things from Amanda’s side and from her parents side, but Mary I have noticed you twisting facts on several occasions, and the example cited above is just one. You’re implying that because of Amanda’s age at the time ( 19 or 20 ) that she was a little girl, and are further implying that even if she was a little girl, that her false accusation of Patrick Lumumba should have been ” ignored and disregarded ” because of her age. The truth is the police had no choice but to act on her accusation. It wasn’t their fault that she lied.

    If people ” ignored and disregarded ” little girls ( Amanda was not a little girl – to say so is a clear distortion and misrepresentation of the facts ) and little boys, as you seem to suggest people should do, simple because of the issue of age, then paedofiles would have a ” field day “. They could do whatever they like. Not good Mary.

    Your comment in fact makes no sense. It actually flies in the face of every child protection agency in the world.

    Apart from that Amanda was no little girl. The police had to act on her accusation, no matter what her age.

    The police have nothing to be ashamed of in that matter. Amanda is the one who should be ashamed of falsely accusing an innocent man. Wow Mary, I like you, I’m sure you are a very nice person, but why do you persist on twisting the truth. It is hard for me to believe Amanda is innocent, when you have to resort to such tactics in an attempt to defend her. Sadly Mary you are in effect lying in an attempt to defend Amanda’s lies.

    I really would like to believe in Amanda’s innocence, but I must admit the more I hear her defenders, the more I’m inclined to believe she is guilty.

    If indeed Amanda is guilty, I would like to think that you truly are defending her because you believe her to be innocent, but Mary when someone lies/twists the truth/ misrepresents the facts as you are doing, it appears to me that you are fully aware that she is guilty, and if the latter is the case, and I’m not being a ” smart ass ” in saying this, I feel sorry for you. Because if you are defending someone you know or believe to be innocent and extending the torture of Meredith’s family, for money or whatever reason, then that is a sick and perverted thing to do to the Kerchers.

    However Mary I like to think you’re a genuine, honest and decent person.

    Well good night now, and take care:+)

  • Mary H.

    No problem in preaching to the choir, WoW. We have to keep reminding each other that we’re not out here alone. Your idea is a good one, especially the part about the police explaining their brilliant intuition and investigative behaviors. Would love to see that. The thing is, they don’t seem to have any qualms about bragging about the goofy ways they did things, which suggests to me they don’t even know there are better ways.

    Imagine WANTING people to know a little girl made you run out and falsely arrest and imprison someone. You would think they’d be too ashamed to admit it.

  • where oh where?

    Have you seen this article in crimesider?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20001171-504083.html

    It’s about mignini and his computer lists of “Attacks to Remember” and “Orgy of Attacks.” And I hadn’t realized that the Florence court banned him from holding public office. Of course, none of this is slowing him down, yet.

    I think sarah palin is really funny and she makes me laugh but …..
    I might feel the same about bush except, my god, he was our president and what’s to laugh about in that?

  • where oh where?

    Thanks, Mary.

    I agree with the point barbie made about the leaked information but then she just had to be true to herself and talk about the group sex so many of the students are doing in Perugia. I’m sure they all loved being tarred by that one. How did you like her True Murder Fiction book?

    You know, as far as the complaints go, I honestly wish someone would do a documentary from the prosecutions point of view. Really explain how all the evidence was found and processed, show films of the collection and the inside of stefanoni’s lab, how she did the LCN DNA testing. Talk about how they came up with the various motives they presented throughout the trial. How brilliant the police were because they didn’t need any evidence to know who is guilty, but then forgot to turn on tape recorders not once, not twice but three times, fried 3 hard drives, let 3 towels mildew and didn’t test for blood in the luminol footprints. And that’s just for starters, as you know.

    Ah, well, I’m preaching to the choir, sorry. I just get so riled sometimes I just can’t help spewing.

    I’ll see ya over at the bill what’s-his-name Examiner story⁄!

  • Mary H.

    LOL, where oh where!

    I agree, the documentary isn’t going to change anyone’s mind. I guess they were trying to be objective, as journalists should be. Events were not presented in chronological order, which may have confused people new to the case; I don’t know.

    One good point they made that you don’t see very often is how much information was leaked to the press by police — even Barbie Nadeau said that.

    Yeah, Frank is pretty cute. ;) And since the truejustice disciples love to judge people by appearances, I would love to know what they think of their corpulent, bloated leader, Peter Quennell, who looks like it hasn’t been too long since he polished off his last bottle of wine. Possibly over a meal with Mignini.

    Bill what’s-his-name on the examiner has a new piece about the TLC documentary. He complains about the documentary being biased, but he call Amanda “Cantwell constituent” in the title. No bias there! He is announcing to the world that he is from the opposite political party — the party of Dubya and Sarah Palin. Ugh.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-32288-Spokane-Political-Buzz-Examiner~y2010m3d28-TLC-show-on-Amanda-Knox-does-not-demonstrate-unfair-trial

  • where oh where?

    Hi BillyRyan, the documentary went ok. Mainly general information. As the reviews said, if you’ve already made up your mind this documentary won’t change it. I did get to see Frank and he is younger than I had pictured.

    As for mid term elections, at this point in time there is no way that Amanda’s case will be part of any election that I know of. In the US it’s all about the health care law just passed. The rhetoric on that will probably die down some by November but there is also the bad economy and high jobless numbers. We do keep sending emails to anyone in office that we can find so the case isn’t forgotten.

    Of course, the guilters are claiming that the case has been forgotten by the press but that isn’t true. Every few days some new story pops up somewhere. Besides, any murder case, even high profile cases here in the US, never stay in the press daily, but they are definitely not forgotten and when some news worthy story comes up it gets its share of the press.

    I’ll just be glad when we have a chance to read the fudges (fudges was a typo but I think it fits so I won’t correct it) report. And I’m so looking forward to the appeals paper work.

  • billyryan

    how did the documentary go last night.did it show this case as a grave miscarriage of justice that it is. there are mid term elections in november can this case have any bearing on this election.can those who want justice for amanda knox and raffaela use the election to get public support for the wrongly accused from politicans

  • where oh where?

    Any news on how the defense is doing with the appeals process? I’m so looking forward to what they will say and what they will dispute. I do hope those .fsa files will be mentioned.

  • John Winters

    By the way guys (and in no way connected with my last post!), have any of you seen the (I believe new), page on Facebook that’s a must for Amanda’s people. I quote from their introductory message:

    ”The State Department’s Office of Public Liaison and Intergovernmental Affairs launched a Facebook page in order to better engage with the American people. This office creates and coordinates opportunities for dialogue between the Administration and the American public to improve public awareness of and involvement in the Department and its work….Become a fan and check back for exciting opportunities for you to voice your opinion on foreign affairs!”

    Let’s go!

  • John Winters

    Hope everybody’s ready for the onslaught of intelligent comment about Amanda’s case that the TV showing of the documentary on March 28th is going to generate on these blogs. In case you’re not, and just to give Tony an idea of the kind of people he’s rubbing shoulders with, here’s a taste of some past beauties (and remember these got through the blog censors):

    ”This horrible little miss nothing should serve out her sentence for what she inflicted on poor Meridith”

    ”And that bitch Knox has guilt written all over her ugly face.”

    ”Pure EVIL, hope she rots in HELL!”

    ”The crazed, smirky sex obsessed killer can now rot”

    ”Amanda knox is:
    sexy (if you like ‘em with Herpes on the lips)”

  • Mary H.

    Don’t know why everyone keeps saying Amanda lied.

    If she was inconsistent during and after the interrogation, it is attributable to the conditions of the interrogation.

    WHY was she taken in for questioning?

    (How did you know I’m gorgeous? Is it because I’m Irish, too?) :)

  • Tony

    Hi Gorgeous Mary,

    You said

    ” What is true is Amanda had absolutely NOTHING to do with getting arrested and she is not responsible for ANYTHING that resulted from that huge violation of her rights. ”

    Short answer ” HER LIES ”

    Good luck, I’ll see you in a few minutes LOL

  • Mary H.

    I already posted this on the examiner but I want to share it here, too. It’s a news story about a cop who planted evidence, and this paragraph about the suspect’s confession especially shows the similarities to Amanda’s case:

    “Kofoed’s work came into question after his 2006 investigation into the slaying of a rural Cass County couple, Wayne and Sharmon Stock. Detectives zeroed in on the couple’s nephew and his cousin but found no physical evidence tying the two to the killings. Detectives managed to get a confession from the nephew, but he retracted it the next day. A day later, Kofoed said he found a drop of one victim’s blood in a car linked to the suspects. The car had been combed over by another forensic investigator.

    The suspects were charged with murder and jailed for several months before being released because prosecutors determined the confession was unreliable and didn’t fit the facts of the case. A man and woman from Wisconsin eventually pleaded guilty to murdering the couple and are serving life-prison terms.

    The FBI began investigating Kofoed after the slain couple’s nephew filed a lawsuit alleging civil-rights violations. The agency’s findings led authorities to charge Kofoed with evidence tampering in April.”

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2011431834_csineb25.html

  • Tony

    Hi Mary,

    That’s not true, you were in Ireland. You were in the papers recently for being drunk and disorderly, and attacking the police. Your photo was on all the front pages as you streaked around the country:+). Now that wasn’t a clever thing to do this time of year:+). As we say here, Mary ” you’d cause trouble in heaven ” LOL

    By the way in as for your comment ” Do you think anyone has been pushed around more than Amanda? ” Well Mary ” IF ” Amanda is innocent – then you are completely correct – my answer would have to be ” NO ”

    Good Luck, I’m going to eat my supper now:+). I think I’ll have some bacon, sausages, eggs, black and white pudding. I know it’s not fancy, but it will hit the spot. The only problem is I hate cooking, and even more so I hate washing up. So if you’re okay with it, I’ll call to you for supper in 10 minutes, so please have my ” grub ” ready, and remember I’m not doing the wash up LOL

    Good luck

  • Mary H.

    Oh, Tony, we are online at the same time — how fun.

    Don’t you think you’re contradicting yourself when you write: “I just believe in honesty, the truth and justice. I tend to say what I believe in all things. I do not ” kiss ass ” with anyone.” I mean, weren’t you trying to advise us to kiss the Perugians’ asses?

    I am hardly ever offended by points people make in these discussions except when I read comments like this: “But it is also true to say that if Amanda is innocent, she certainly has made a huge mess for herself and hasn’t helped herself in anyway.”

    What is true is Amanda had absolutely NOTHING to do with getting arrested and she is not responsible for ANYTHING that resulted from that huge violation of her rights.

    I had to chuckle when I read what you wrote to billy: “All I can do is assume that you are very young and naive.”

    I was assuming exactly the opposite!

  • Mary H.

    Tony, I enjoyed reading your observations about Americans. I know that many Americans do think they are superior to other cultures, and that we are deservedly disliked for many things. Do keep in mind, though, that there are many Americans who are opposed to the same things you find fault with, such as the health care situation, the emphasis on military “solutions,” poverty and gun rights. We don’t always have the power to do anything about it.

    And I, for one, have never been to Europe, so don’t blame me!! ;) LOL.

    Like billy and where, I don’t believe it is strategically effective to be nice about Amanda’s situation. We are criticizing the Perugian police and prosecution because they are just flat out wrong. To worry about offending them in the process of getting Amanda out is comparable to an abused wife worrying about offending her husband so he won’t beat her again. Not only is it not fair, it is not the right way to go about getting protection.

    If the Perugian police and prosecution require being handled with kid gloves, that, to me, is just more evidence of their lack of maturity and character.

    You wrote: “There is such a thing as pride, and no one no where wants to be told what to do and pushed around. As every American knows well, they would not want to be dictated to and pushed around and naturally the same applies to every Italian, and indeed everyone else, including you and I.”

    Do you think anyone has been pushed around more than Amanda?

  • Tony

    Hi Billy,

    Do you remember ” The Kerry baby case “, where the cops beat the young woman whose baby had just died in an attempt to get her to confess to killing the child. Im not sure if you remember, but the cops went so far as to say that she basically had said sex with 2 men in quick succession and that the baby had had 2 FATHERS. Yes that’s true. The cops even brought in experts to support these claim. But they did not succeed. Thanks to the courts here the truth came out, and she was acquitted. Just Google it to check it out. Likewise how about the story of ” Nicky Kelly ” a man falsely accused by the cops and imprisoned and later released. The point I’m trying to make is that there are corrupt cops everywhere. In fact I don’t trust any cop. I my opinion they are basically all corrupt. With regards to your point that a politician here could set a person convicted of murderfree here, if contacted by a US politician. Billy thankfully I believe you are wrong. How quickly you seem to forget. Do you not remember what happened to Trevor Seargent within the past 4 weeks. As you know he WAS a junior minister in the Government, and he tried to influence the police in a minor matter on behalf of one of his constituents the police were investigating. As you know as soon as it became public knowledge that he had done so, HE HAD TO RESIGN WITHIN 3 HOURS. Billy you know that is a FACT. Also Billy you mention something about Meginni if he was in this country that he would ” wake up dead ” one morning with a bullet to the head ( or something to that effect ). With all due respect that is NOT TRUE. And quite frankly actually for you to speak in those terms is very disturbing to say the least. Now that is scary.

    All I can do is assume that you are very young and naive. I know that what I have said is true. Check things out. I am not messing you or anyone else around. I don’t have the time for that.

    I hear a lot of talk running down an independent judicial system and also Miginni. Lets honestly recap on his ” Illegal ” actions on the MOF case. He illegally tapped the phones of police he believed to be CORRUPT and also the phones of Journlists – all of which he believed to impeding justice and shielding monied or connected murderers. He bent the rules in an attempt to solve REAL CRIMES. Billy be honest with yourself, if a prosecutor in Ireland went after cops he believed to be corrupt and also some journalists as described above – while he would have technically broken the law – publically he would be applauded and hailed as a hero. THAT IS A FACT. Miginni is not the man the Know campaign are painting him. He is a man who simply bent the rules a little in an attempt to do the right thing. How many of us have bent the rules at one time or another time in our lives in an attempt to do what we know is the right thing. I HOPE WE ALL HAVE.
    Before anyone attacks Meginni they should first look to themselves and their own lives.

    There is a huge difference between tapping the phones of some cops and journalists and MURDER. And apart from that, in the MOF matter his actions while foolish, simply prove his determination and dedication to pursue the truth relentlessly no matter where it might lead – perhaps to corrupt cops, journalists, and monied people, regardless of their connections and power. I don’t care what any of you say, he is a brave man, who cannot be bought or intimidated – NOW THAT IS A MAN – not a mouse.

    Billy I hope again I have not offended you in anyway. That is not my intention. I just believe in honesty, the truth and justice. I tend to say what I believe in all things. i do not ” kiss ass ” with anyone. I do not look up to anyone and likewise I do not look down on anyone. In this world we are all exactly the same. I always try to do the right thing, and that is very often difficult, and very often unpopular with many people. But like is not a popularity contest. It’s about truth and happiness.

    As far as Amanda is concerned, I cannot honestly say whether she is guilty or not. It’s very hard to tell. A lot of what the prosecution have come out with, honestly sounds like bullshit – pure crap. But it is also true to say that if Amanda is innocent, she certainly has made a huge mess for herself and hasn’t helped herself in anyway.

    Well Good Luck and take care, and again I apologize if iI have offended you in any way:+)

  • where oh where?

    Tony, I lived in Mexico when I was younger, attended college at the National University and University of the Americas. Both my sisters married men from Mexico, though one is now divorced. That sister now lives in France and has done so for the past 10 years. I visit her often. I do not believe that the American judicial system is perfect, nor do I believe I am better than anyone else or I would have to think I was superior to my nieces and nephews.

    But American or Irish (my mother’s maiden name was Murphy), I do recognize injustice when I see it. I can also recognize when a system could be prone to problems when it is void of proper checks and balances and is allowed to police itself. If the Irish system works as well as you imply then I am happy for you and the Irish people. But I believe that the italian system has problems in Perugia and I will not keep silent about 2 innocent people being held in prison.

    Like BillyRyan I am disappointed in my fellow Americans for not paying more attention to this injustice and much more than disappointed in those who are spreading malicious lies that really can only be called slander against Amanda and her family.

    The Innocence Project is looking into this case because of the irregularities in some of the forensic evidence. Here is an interesting article from the Irish Times:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0227/1224265260550.html

    Hope I haven’t offended you and take care…..Where oh Where

  • billyryan

    tony like you i am from ireland,i too am disapointed with americans,but only from the point of view that this miscarriage of justice has not brought them on too the streets to demonstrate and demand that their politicans take action
    I disagree with you in relation to critism of amanda parents,curt and edda are restrained and very good every time they are interviewed as is amanda sister deanna,they are amatuers as far as dealing with the media is concerned but they have come together and are prepared to face any situation no matter how unfair to help amanda.when amanda and raffaela are aquitted and exonerated the knox family, which includes amandas stepfather her two half sisters her grandmother her aunts her uncles and cousins who have sacrificed everything to help the wrongly accused amanda, will be held up as an example of what a family should be
    Personally i like to believe in the fairness of the irish people,if amanda and merridith had come to ireland to study,lets face it what happened to merridith could have happened to her here,but amanda would never have been hit in an irish police station she would never be charged with slander for giving evidence at her own trial.if mignini tryed to act the bully here like he is doing in italy,how long do you think he would last before he would have an accident with a gun in his bed at night.if what maybe i am naive enough to think could not happen that amanda and raffaela were convicted without any evidence of merridiths murder in an irish court,how many phonecalls would it take between the irish premier and hillary clinton or president obama before they would be listening to “not guilty”ye are free to go from one of our independant judges
    if italy and the italian judges are facing critism they have only themselves to blame.they are now reduced to making up fairytale after fairytale to try and convince the world that you can get justice in italy,but in reality all they are suceeding in doing is digging a deeper hole for themselves

  • Ron Siva

    Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent. They are victims of an unfair prosecution and court system. All the lies and false evidence have been refuted. Amanda’s only regret can be that she was wrongfully convicted. Don’t let an innocent rot in jail. This could have happened to any young student visiting Italy. Please visit this site for the real facts: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org

  • Tony

    Hi Where oh Where,

    Thanks for your reply. By the sounds of things you are American. I’m Irish and here in Ireland and just like in Italy the courts are completely independent. It’s really not at all scary. It is actually a great relief. In this country no one can influence the courts no matter who they are or what money they have or no matter who they know ( including no one can get their politician, no matter what their politician’s level of power, to interfere on their behalf ). This is certainly the fairest way. The law here is above who you are, your money, and who you know. The independence of the courts ensures the law is the same for everyone. The courts here are totally transparent, and it appears the same applies to Italy.

    I am not trying to be rude or offensive in anyway, but sadly many American’s seem to have the notion that they are better in every way than other people and other countries. Which is a pity, because in many cases the opposite is the truth. Many americans regard other peoples and other countries are backwards. That is really sad.

    Again I’m Irish and like most Irish people ( as indeed most countries in the world ) I have many American relations, and quite frankly most Irish people dread the visit of their US relations because they never stop boasting, and looking down their noses, believing they are better. These people very often come across as extremely ignorant, insecure and of course arrogant. While we love the Dollar, many Americans can be totally impossible to deal with.

    Please forgive me but there is a saying ” You can always trust the Americans to do the right thing – after they have tried everything else “.

    Europe and Europeans are not backward. The US is regarded as one of the most uneducated nations in the world. Up until yesterday or the day before the US did not have a proper healthcare system, with the poor being deprived the basic human right of healthcare, while America has the biggest military in the world. Also there are many many people struggling to survive below the poverty line in the US, again while the US spends such an enormous amount of money on it’s military and all that that involves. Moving on from that the US is a country where every moron has the right to own guns of all descriptions ( that’s insanity ). The list goes on and on.

    Again I’m not trying to offend you or any other American, but the truth is America is extremely backward in comparison to Europe. That may be hard for some people to accept but it is the truth.

    With all of that said anytime I have visited the US, and everyone says the same, you Americans could not be nicer. You are extremely courteous, and helpful. You are terrific! You are outstanding! But sadly when many Americans travel outside the US, they seem to behave totally differently. They seem to morph into different people.

    Many Americans seem to have a very bad attitude towards other people and other countries. Most people in the hospitality business will point out that the Americans are good spenders, but they are an almighty plague to deal with. Americans must realize that the world is not the ‘ Wild West “. Might is not right. No one is better than anyone else. We are all exactly the same – And you must extend the exact same respect to people that you expect to receive. You cannot ride rough shot over people and expect them to say ” Thank you “. If you are rude to Europeans they will ignore you. The Knox people have totally mis-judged this situation, and if indeed Amanda is innocent, I feel very sorry for her, because her family and supporters have and are doing her more harm than good. If you insult, abuse, attack Europeans ( Italians ), they are simply going to ignore you. There is such a thing as pride, and no one no where wants to be told what to do and pushed around. As every American knows well, they would not want to be dictated to and pushed around and naturally the same applies to every Italian, and indeed everyone else, including you and I.

    I hope I have not offended you or anyone else, and I sincerely apologize if i done so, as same was not intended. I hope what I have written is of some help to you.

    Take care,

    Good luck!

  • where oh where?

    Hi Tony, the truth of what Chris writes in his article. ivstitia and al-fake gave us several lectures in this blog on the Italian justice system. We got the lecture on how and why the judiciary was set up the way it is, why they don’t have to answer to anyone but themselves and other basics. The lectures are peppered throughout the posts but a good one is from ivs writing on Feb 4 at 1:45 am.

    You will also see some of the questions asked after the lectures. What I wanted to know was who judged the judges/prosecutors. My answer, they judge themselves and have to answer to no one else. Scary.

  • Heather Coy

    Amanda and Raffaele are innocent. Look past the media harrassment of these two people and learn the facts. Think about whether you would want to be convicted using low-copy number DNA “evidence.”

    Please visit http://www.sciencespheres.org for more information. Thank you!

  • Tony

    Hi Where oh Where,

    What is it that many of you guessed was the truth?

  • where oh where?

    I read Chris Halkides latest addition to his series on the Amanda Knox trial, entitled “Viewpoints on the Italian Justice System”. From quotes and articles he talks basically about how the Italian judiciary is self-ruling and is not accountable to anyone. Many of the comments and questions we addressed to al-fake and ivs. They tap danced around giving any kind of real information on exactly how powerful this made the judges and prosecutors.

    But Chris makes a good argument for what many of us guessed was the truth.

  • Mary H.

    Barbie Nadeau has always been an anti-Amanda hack, as far as I have observed. She prints stuff without documentation and the truejusticers lap it up.

    Al-Fakh posted this on the P-I blog regarding the people who help out with the truejustice website: “As far as I know they’re all only volunteering their time to the cause of justice for Meredith and to the righting of the anti-Italian spin…”

    That means that he and Ivstitia are doing a $35-40/hour translating job for free. Wonder how many hours they’ve spent already on that 427-page document. Pretty sweet deal for truejustice.

  • where oh where?

    Thanks Mary for all the updates. Right now I’m in my busy season at work and don’t have as much time to look around and find out what is going on. Sometimes I’m lucky and stumble onto something.

    So, is baribie nadeau the newest guilter heroine, or is she the devil?

  • where oh where?

    Don’t know if anyone here posts on JREF site but it is good reading with a lot of explanations of the scientific evidence. I do enjoy what the guilters must think of as “zingers” when they try to pose intelligent arguments against the scientists with true credentials and knowledge. I note that when I read the pmf blog I often see one or two of the posters bragging how they put the scientists in their place on JREF. And how they are applauded for their brilliance by their cult followers. I snicker at the posts knowing how foolish their so called argument to beat all arguments must truly resonate with any scientist with the real education.

    I do hope that the defense makes another demand for the lab files that the prosecution has withheld and that they get them. From reading around on the web those files will probably release a huge uproar on the quality of the evidence and the testing of the evidence, especially the knife and bra clasp.

    If the prosecution doesn’t release these final files, I hope the uproar will be the big question of “why not”?

  • Mary H.

    More hope, Billy.

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/198642.asp?from=blog_last3

    *Breaking News: A Milan court has awarded Amanda Knox 80,000 euro for the unauthorized use of her private diaries in Amanda Gli Altri and Corriere della Serra in writings by Firorenza Sarzanini

    http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/

  • Mary H.

    Oh, I see you were already on to that, where. Good comments.

  • Mary H.

    Here is some news from today:

    March 18, 2010 6:27 AM
    Amanda Knox Italian Police Bombshell: We Knew She Was Guilty of Murder Without Physical Evidence

    “….How did Italian police target Knox and Sollecito so quickly? One answer came three months after the arrests. In February 2008, 48 Hours met with Fabio Giobbi, a department head at the Via Tuscolana offices of the forensic police.

    Giobbi told 48 Hours he was proud that Knox and Sollecito were arrested before fingerprints, blood, footprints, or DNA were analyzed by his office. Instead, Giobbi explained, the case was solved simply by observing Amanda Knox’s behavior.

    And what was suspicious about Knox’s behavior? What gave her guilt away? Giobbi pointed to three incidents.

    “But a warning first: in true movie fashion, Giobbi is going to start sounding like a character in a Fellini film, where imagination is the same as everyday reality….”

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20000577-504083.html

  • where oh where?

    BillyRyan, like you I know nothing. I search the web and can find out little information. I’m sure everyone is waiting for the translations of the judges sentencing report. It is so frustrating for me and I can only imagine how Amanda and Raffaele feel caught up in the middle of this nightmare. The defense teams are also interviewing other inmates that claimed Rudy spoke about the crime, but again there is little information out there.

    I guess we need to develop some patience. I have been following the jref thread on the case. I’m sure you’ve been to the site. But just in case I’ll post the address.

    http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161229&page=133

    I’ve also been lurking on the pmf site. Urg, it often makes my stomach churn but there is that old saying about keeping your friends close and you enemies closer. At least from reading the posts I have learned much more about their mind set.

  • billyryan

    has all the hope we had in the last four or five days disapeared,does anybody know when amandas next court appearence is,and has anyone got any knowledge of any possability of release during the appeal

  • where oh where?

    I emailed the foundation and while I can’t participate they did inform me that a video will be available a few days after the conference. I was hoping maybe you could propose questions by email, but that’s not the case.

    What kind of impact will this conference have? I’m really curious, but like all other aspects of this case I know I’ll have to be patient to find find out.

  • where oh where?

    Does anyone know what is going on with the Italy USA Foundation and the conference to discuss whether the Amanda Knox trial would have happened in the US? Here is a link to the story.

    http://www.italiausa.org/index.php?lang=en

    You can email the foundation if you want to participate but I’m not exactly sure what that means.

  • Mary H.

    I felt the same way the last time I looked at it, where, which was a few days ago. I will look at it again today.

  • where oh where?

    I’ve read that the defense will have something to present in court within two weeks. I hope this includes release awaiting appeals trial.

    Have you been reading Frank’s blog lately? What do you think is going on with him? Is he having problems with mignini? Like threats of being sewed? Or, is he feeling his patriotism taking over? I think his last entries have been odd, to say the least.

  • billyryan

    fair enough richard but amanda is entitled to more,like release while awaiting for the appeal to go ahead which could take two years,i now think she and raffaela have political support from the us.even if she has to stay in italy it would take some of the heat off this case

  • Richard Kadas

    The addition of lawyer Ted Simon to the Knox legal team will rectify its inability to put together a coherent logically consistent defense. The involvement of the Idaho Innocence Project, the world’s foremost DNA evidence analysis group, will conclusively resolve the doubts caused by the shoddy Italian DNA analysis used to link Amanda to the crime.
    The Alessi testimony corroborates the police copy of the Guede phone conversation from Germany re. Amanda not being present in the apartment where the murder was committed. It also fits with the total lack of physical evidence placing her at the murder scene.
    She will be acquitted in her retrial.

  • Mary H.

    I agree, Billy, we defintiely should not take silence for inaction. Many of the Amanda-haters assume Hillary Clinton refused to get involved, but I have a strong feeling the State Department is working on this behind the scenes. All it takes a study of the evidence and transcripts by competent people to recognize the verdict was a mistake, and there are plenty of competent people willing to get involved.

    I have said all along that the Italians will have to release Amanda if the demand is strong enough. Ivstitia, Al-Fook and their ilk always respond by saying the judges can’t do it because it would violate Italian law, but this is an extraordinary case and anything is possible.

    The whole knife question couldn’t be more ridiculous, from the way it was found to the idea of Amanda carrying it in her purse.

  • billyryan

    I was visiting the “injusticeinperugia”website before leaving a message congratulating them on their new website i read the other letters,a poster left a post enquiring about any help from government.bruce the administrater replied, dont take silence for inaction,and he would not like to say anymore at the moment.I suspect he is a man in the know
    the other article i studdied most was in relation to the knife.amanda as we all know was convicted in the wrong of murder but not premeditated murder.a reason however rediculous had to be put forward as to why she had the knife at the cottage
    she was carying it for self defence was the reason the judge came up with to get himself out of a corner,a sugestion never mentioned at the trial,and according to italian law the motivations cannot include something that was not mentioned at the trial
    i agree it is all moving very fast now.i think the first court hearing will be in two weeks time. there has to be a chance of release while the appeal procedes,if the most powerful goverment in the world is in contact with another friendly goverment.in any event it will be some media event

  • Mary H.

    I just read the letter on the CBS site.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20000287-504083.html

    To me, it’s obvious it was written by one of Rudy’s lawyers, who must be as stupid as Mignini if he thinks he’s fooling anyone. “As usual in this beloved country of ours,…”? Right — patriotism is the first thing on Rudy’s mind.

    Oops! In the next paragraph, the writer suddenly remembers he is supposed to be writing as Rudy, which is when he comes up with all those dirty, crazy names for Alessi.

    Rudy describes Meredith, whom he barely knew, as “a small human angel,” and “splendid and marvelous?” If the letter wasn’t from Italy, I would guess it came straight from the truejustice website, who always try to their position by reminding everyone of how beautiful Meredith was, as if that somehow makes her death worse than the deaths of other murder victims.

    “I also did not speak on my own or with others to other detainees about matters regarding my trial and if I had had something to say, do you not think I would have spoken to my lawyers?”

    As if Rudy ever did any of the talking when he was with his lawyers. What’s the matter, Rudy’s lawyers? Are you feeling slighted? Is that why you had to come up with this dreck?

  • where oh where?

    Thanks BillyRyan for the link. I finally had a few minutes to visit the site. I hope it helps getting Amanda and Raffaele freed.

    I saw the letter. rudy is getting really pissed, isn’t he. mignini is one of the people who will question rudy about the allessi statement. I hope others are there and that the interview is actually tapped. Maybe rudy is so mad he’ll slip-up big time.

    This is all moving so fast right now and I hope it’s moving fast in the right direction. If what Frank Sfarzo says is true, the whole case might start again. I would assume including the investigative portion. I hope that Amanda and Raffaele are released to house arrest while this is taking place.

  • billyryan

    in a seperate development rudi has sent a letter to a rome tv station called mediaset calling mario alessi a sick mind and says he never confided anything in him. statments from the other inmates that alessi says would verify his story would be very important now
    rudi talked about the brutal murder of merridith kercher and mediaset says he confirmed the part played by amanda and raffaela and denied that he ever said that they were not there
    his lawyer “nicodemo gentile” later clarified that in relation to amanda and raffaela he was only referring to what the court in perugia had found them guilty of
    with the number of lives that this man has destroyed by having come accross him i think it is a bit rich he calling “mario alessi” a sick mind

  • billyryan

    there are two ways of getting into it at least
    1)http:www.raffaelasollecito.org/
    the second way is open the “friends of amanda home” website go to articles and links when that opens it is right at the top of the page.it was only set up on the eight of march

  • billyryan

    hi “where oh where” there is two ways at least to get into it 1) http://www.raffaelesollecito.org/ it was only launched on the eight of march
    the second way is open “friends of amanda home”click on articles and links when that opens its right at the top of the page
    since “friends of amanda home” have a link to raff website and vice aversa its obvious they are working together

  • where oh where?

    Hi BillyRyan, I looked for the Raffaele’s website on the Friends of Amanda site and couldn’t fine it. Could you give me the link? Thanks in advance.

  • billyryan

    The friend of raffaela have set up a website saw the link on “friends of amanda home”yesterday. With luca maori going public with the cellmates story and now the website it appears that their is new thinking in the raffaela sollecito defence team
    Raffaela lawyer is also a politician who sucessfully defended berlusconi,she may have access to the highest power in the land berlusconi may be just as briefed on this case as any of us who post here. I hope amanda and raffaela dont get caught up in a power play between politicans and gudges/prosecuters

  • John Winters

    Here it is where:

    google: ”Amanda Knox’s deadly exchange – crime reports – msnbc.com”

    The article is written by a guy named Murphy and Van Zandt is interviewed by him.

  • where oh where?

    At the very least, this statement and all that’s coming from it, are keeping Amanda and Raffaele in the news. And you can add to that the ridiculous sentencing report. The general public are getting a real dose of justice Italian style.

  • billyryan

    I see over on the cbs website that the three other prisoners who heard rudi jailhouse confession have been quitely moved away from rudi and scattered through other prisons in italy. This to me is a terrifing example of the power of the people who are out at all costs to condem this innocent couple
    Raffaela lawyer who broke the story is also a politician and i have read that she made her name by sucessfully defending berlusconi,and this looks like raffaela defenders could be about to go a bit more public in their campaign to win raffaelas freedom
    As regards the friend of rudi leaving no trace. Is there not three peoples unidentified dna on the bra strap Over on perugia shock i read that there are four unidentified fingerprints in the murder room. mignini investigation of this crime was just an effort to find anything,even if it had to be planted,that would enable him to satisfy his desire to destroy amanda knox
    I am still waiting to find out who in the perugia office is investigating this new piece of evidence,surely mignini is not the man,if the investigation was given to someone else it might make a difference

  • where oh where?

    Who is that over at the JREF forum defending Mark Waterbury’s work against fulcanelli, shuttit and stilicho, all posters I’ve seen on pmf? Other guilters, too? Doing quite well.

    The challenge they can’t seem to overcome is (as posted by Open Inquiry), “How come you don’t refute his arguments, but only try to discredit him? There are two parts to his argument – one is purely technical (and yes this can be checked… btw I really like your idea about the science and technology part of the thread – excellent idea) and the other is not purely technical.”

    The pmf’ers just don’t seem to have a real answer for this challenge. Open Inquiry asked them to take the scientific work to any other scientist for confirmation but they keep coming up with excuses why they won’t do it.

    It’s really iteresting and here is the site.

    http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=161229&page=121

  • John Winters

    There is an FBI profile of the case available where.
    Clint Van Zandt, a Director of Profiling with the FBI for 25 years was given special permission to study the casefiles. Some of his comments are a little outdated now; he did this back in 07. But it is definitely worth a look, you’re right.

    I’m at work now and can’t find the link. I’ll send it on this site later. Beware where, it’s a bit ‘real.’

  • where oh where?

    One other thing, there is still no DNA, finger, foot or palm print, hair or any other kind of evidence of a stranger in the bedroom. Since much of this evidence was identified in the first few weeks when the prosecution was expecting to find evidence of Amanda, Raffaele, Patrick and finally Rudy in the room, I just don’t believe it’s possible for there to have actually been another person there who committed the murder. The prosecution never seemed adverse to keep adding people to their list of suspects, so 5 would have been as easy as 4. More than a bit crowded in that tiny bedroom but, hey, what does the prosecution care.

    If a stranger was there at all, he or she never entered that room.

    Keep in mind that neither Amanda no Raffaele left evidence in the bedroom, so if people keep claiming that a stranger was there leaving no evidence, it does undermine the defense case.

  • where oh where?

    Well, I didn’t say that quite right. He did add the other dude into the mix, of course, when he claimed the strange guy was there when he came out of the bathroom. But if rudy thought he had been seen coming and going, if there had truly been someone with him he would have known that person would also have been seen. He couldn’t risk adding a companion to his story with his first interrogations, so he added the stranger instead. Now rudy knows no one has come forward claiming to have seen him, so it’s safe to replace the “stranger” with a “friend”.

  • where oh where?

    What I would really like to see is an FBI forensic profile on the crime. I don’t trust the bias of the Perugian police, so don’t trust their interpretation of what happened. The FBI have the experts who could dissect the crime and help make sense of what happened.

    My belief is that rudy acted alone. He is a practiced liar so much of what he said rings true. He wraps the truth around his lies in an almost seamless way. The truth parts give him the details he needs to be convincing. He book ends his story with the times he arrived and departed from the cottage. These times are more than likely correct because he believed at the time he first told his story that there were witnesses who could place him there. In the Micheli report he speaks of seeing players on the basket ball court. If he saw them, he must assume they saw him. No one came forth but he had already fabricated his story. If someone had been with him at the time I think he would have added that person into the mix, assuming that person would have also been seen. This “the other dude did it” excuse just doesn’t ring true to me.

    Anyway, my thoughts.

  • John Winters

    My instincts tell me there is something to the mystery man too. It just seems to fill a vacuum which has always raised doubt about each possible theory people have come up with. I feel Rudy IS the type of guy who would bring a friend along casually and something rings true about him coming out of the bathroom to find catastrophe. It just seems to suddenly add up. Either that, or Rudy is one shrewd operator who can create vacuums which raise doubts early on, only for him to fill us all in later in a way which conveniently relieves him of responsibility.
    I think I have always also had a niggling doubt about Rudy being capable of this crime. The shocking, more violent friend makes sense.
    As for forensics, the CSI’s may have been focally negligent, but like True Justice, that shouldn’t stop us from pressing on regardless and presumptuously making a case for the mystery man having been there, just as they do with Amanda, entirely disregarding the lack of corroborative DNA in her case.

  • Mary H.

    Billy, I totally respect Frank, but I have a hard time seeing how this other guy could not have left a ton of evidence behind. Plus, I think Rudy had acted alone in his previous crimes.

    On the other hand, the investigators collected evidence in a biased, targeted way. That is, they looked specifically for evidence of Amanda and Raffaele, and may have ignored evidence that did not match their presumptions.

    I still think Rudy went to Meredith by himself, looking for a connection, without too much malice aforethought. But I very well could be wrong.

  • Mary H.

    Tony! I can’t believe I didn’t notice your comments last night when I last posted; maybe they weren’t there yet or something.

    Thank you for the invitation, but I prefer to have an audience. As similar as your last name is to mine, one just can’t be too careful when it comes to the internet.

    But please feel welcome to stay here and chat. It’s a shrinking but very good crowd.

  • where oh where?

    Billyryan, I hope something comes of this story. But I think the story of the man covered in blood has been covered before. Douglas Preston even wrote about it in an afterward in his book “The Monster of Florence” in 2008. But the fact that rudy gave a name is interesting. The stories are also breathing new life into the case and attracting a lot more interest into what the h*ll is going on in Pereugia.

  • billyryan

    Mary H is it very easy to come to the conclusion that rudi has invented this stranger to ease his mind over what a lot of people think he has done.yet frank sfarso over on perugia shock thinks this is percisly how merridith met her death.and franks oppinions have to be taken very seriously by anyone who wishes to see these two fine women “amanda and merridith”get the justice they both deserve
    frank firmly believes that there was another man with rudi who did indeed deliver the fatal blows,I saw a report at some stage that a witness saw a man late on november the first who was covered in blood
    the daily mail today reported that rudi may have named the man who was with him on that night.a reporter who printed the story of the man seen on november the first was threatened by mignini and out of fear of mignini droped the story
    do any of ye have any knowledge as to why anyone would have any faith in the perugia prosecuters office now to act on this story now since they already have heard rudi tell this story to his father and and did not want to believe it
    since sollecito defence team took this tape to the prosecuters office they must have some confidence that someone in that office is interested in the truth not just destroying amanda knoxs life

  • Mary H.

    Billy, have you noticed how much more press the cellmate is getting than the judges’ motivations? I already posted this on the examiner but I will repeat it here — Rudy has no credibility and Alessi has even less, yet the media are going wild over this news. I think it’s because they know people WANT Amanda to be innocent.

    I think what has spooked the haters into silence is what I suggested in my post to Michael above — how can they continue their support for and agreement with the judges when the judges have disagreed with Mignini and shown sympathy for Amanda and Raffaele, backing down on the claims they were motivated by evil?

    The truejustice crowd have to figure out some way to reconcile their truth (the prosecutors’ truth) with the judges’ truth. And that’s not even bringing the actual truth into the equation! It has got to be making their heads swim.

  • Tony O’Connor

    Hi Mary H,

    Just to avoid any confusion I’m Antoine:+)

  • Tony O’Connor

    Hi Mary H,

    Remember me? Well if you wish to categorize me as either a Good or Bad witch, does that mean I’m a Good one if I agree with you and a Bad one if I don’t? Well the first thing I would have to say is I would consider myself a Good witch. I say this because I am trying to come at the truth – NOT jump on a bandwagon on either side. I am not a sheep. I do not follow the leader or say or do what is most popular. Sheep are pretty much dumb animals and tend to follow the leader. They also have a tendency to get ” shagged ” a lot by the occasional sheep farmer, or the occasional Curt and Edda, or the occasional Cop/Prosecutor. I prefer to have a mind of my own and think things through for myself. It is for this reason that I am here commenting on this case – seeking the truth. Surprisingly for you perhaps but I do not trust any authority figure, especially cops/prosecutors – and this is where my doubt in this case comes in. Are they crooked? Perhaps. Are Amanda, Curt and Edda believable? NOOO:+). I am fully aware that it is impossible to have proper conversations on the other blog. i am also fully aware that it is also impossible for 2 people to have truly honest conversation in an open forum as both parties cannot speak openly and honestly. it would be much more effective to have an honest ” no holds barred ” , and let the chips fall where they may – let the truth come out – between 2 people without an audience. No games, or one up man ship, no need for face saving, just me and you – just the truth. One to One. Are you up to it?

  • Mary H.

    I agree, where oh where; I think Rudy is simply replacing Amanda and Raffaele with this imaginary accomplice in the alibi he wishes were true. Eventually he may be able to come to grips with taking full responsibility for the crime, but not yet.

    I agree with billy, too, of course. The way I have always assumed it happened was that when Rudy was arrested in Germany, he was informed that there were already three people in custody for the crime. When he arrived back in Perugia, he was supplied with an attorney or attorneys whose first line of defense was to use the three already-arrested people to minimize Rudy’s involvement.

    Who was Rudy to say no to that? Being a young, suggestible person like Amanda and Raffaele, it probably didn’t take much to convince him that maybe he hadn’t done such a terrible thing — maybe there really were other people who had finished Meredith off. I think it would be normal for anyone who is ashamed of having committed a crime (not all criminals are), to reinforce possible alternative scenarios in his mind to lessen his feelings of guilt and regret.

  • billyryan

    rudi cellmate says his story can be supported by three other inmates.mignini always had to have rudi cooperation to frame amanda and raffaela,he was always likely to be an unrealiable suporter
    I am wondering how important this story is,the fact that the video was sent to the perugia prosecuters office rather than wait and use it in evidence in front of a judge.this was rudi story for the first five months of this case until the police got him to change his mind
    the police could be very nervous of rudi telling of who urged/suggested this theory to him

  • where oh where?

    Have you read the oj simpson book he wrote about the murders? In it simpson says he had a friend along with him the night he murdered Nicole and Ron. He said he would never name the friend. The friend tried to talk oj out of the murders but still went along with oj when he committed the murders. Many think the unnamed friend is simpson’s own conscious.

    Isn’t this what rudy is doing? Inventing a friend to help take the blame. A friend who could commit this horrible murder while he, rudy, becomes the innocent bystander who tries to save the girl in the end. I think the “friend” just represents the bad part of rudy. In the other crimes rudy committed but was not prosecuted for, there was no friend or partner ever mentioned.

  • John Winters

    Honestly, the things people say when they’re reeling from a shock revelation…….

    Al-Ahak asks:

    Where were the mystery man’s DNA and fingerprints in the murder room?

    Answer: They can be found in the same location as Amanda Knox’s DNA and fingerprints in the murder room.

    Al-Fhak also asks:

    Why didn’t Rudy implicate the mystery man?

    Answer: Would you snitch on a man you had personally witnessed cold-bloodedly murdering someone? Rudy must be terrified of him!

    Biscotti: I’ve been his lawyer for two years and he’s never mentioned anything like this to me!

    Answer: Duh!

  • Mary H.

    Hi everyone. I hope no one minds, but I am going to take up some space with a response to one “Michael” who raised some issues on the examiner blog. As you know the examiner only keeps the last 20 or so messages, so his posts have disappeared, but I saved them so I could reply to him. These ar for you, Michael,

    Michael wrote (about the Alessi testimony): “A story that’s bunk. Have you not heard? Rudy has denied ever speaking to the man….. It is hearsay and not credible hearsay at that. And not only is the guy not credible, neither is the story he’s offering about what happened at the cottage. It does not stand up to any of the evidence at the crime scene or witnesses. It can be dismissed out of hand.”

    Rudy is no more credible than Alessi, so that’s not much of an argument. As for the evidence standing up, well, Rudy no doubt told Alessi he was at the cottage with someone else, but that doesn’t mean he was. Rudy committed the crime alone — he just WISHES he had someone else to blame.

    “And the fact this has been fed to he media by Marriott and co…”

    Can you document that claim?

    Michael wrote: “Really Mary H? I see you doing very little disagreeing with those authority figures that have jumped onto the ‘save Amanda bandwagon’. It seems you advocate disagreeing with authority figures only when and insofar that it’s convenient to your agenda. Therefore, you can get down off you high horse now.”

    Amanda’s supporters are not authority figures like police, prosecutors and judges, they are my peers. Everyone seems to forget that the Friends of Amanda did not come into being until after the case had already been around for some time, and many people (including myself), already had our own ideas about the evidence.

    I’m not into agreeing OR disagreeing with authority figures per se; I am most interested in the truth. My point is that many of Amanda’s detractors seem to place more value on the word of a corrupt prosecutor than on facts they can analyze themselves.

    Michael wrote: “Perhaps also you can highlight for us how the report differs in any essentially important way from what people have argued? Does it not say all three of them are guilty of murdering Meredith during a sexual attack and that the crime scene was staged and all the convicted lied through their teeth, or have I been misreading?”

    You are right; it is not different in those essential ways. But I have yet to see any of Amanda’s detractors comment on the judges’ sympathy for Amanda and Raffaele. It has got to be eating away at most of the people who for two+ years have written that Amanda is a bitch, a whore, a skank, a slut, a tart, promiscuous, evil, she should rot in her jail cell, she should burn in hell, etc., etc., etc.

    Tell me this is not causing them quite a bit of cognitive dissonance, which they are dying to express. But how can they? If they disagree with these judges, their powerful arguments about how right-thinking the judges are will unravel.

    Michael wrote: “They didn’t even know who [Lumumba] was, let alone what colour he was….”

    Our friend Ivsitia shared this (no doubt “Italians-only”) knowledge with us a while back: “Add also that the police had evidence that Lumumba’s cell phone had pinged on the cell tower serving Piazza Grimana, and that Lumumba had changed phones one or two days after the murder (and therefore that fact raised suspicions). The phone was a problem for Lumumba even after his release. In fact although the Judge didn’t have enough elements for his detention he was still kept in the “registro degli indagati” (suspected register) for a little while longer after his release.”

    It appears the police were indeed surveilling Lumumba before Amanda’s interrogation – they just needed her to put the frosting on the cake. As for his color, they did know they were looking for a black man:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2862541.ece

    By the way, Michael, I can provide the complete versions of your posts, if you think I have taken anything out of context.

  • where oh where?

    Oh no, PhanuelB, I’m so sorry. I was just so busy looking around the blogs I just wasn’t paying attention. I’m so sorry, I don’t know what got into me. I guess I misread the word justice in the web address you gave and I just automatically read it as truejustice and I’v had more than enough of them. Please forgive me for my crass words. I’ll pay much more attention from now on.

  • where oh where?

    phan, you wouldn’t know true justice if it sliced off part of your buttocks from the 12″ kitchen knife you carry around in your back pocket because a certain judges report suggests it’s a good thing to carry one around, just in case!

  • where oh where?

    Hey, no problem Mary. Actually I got a big kick out of al-fake’s nickname for me. He is clever, it’s just too bad that his ability to reason is impaired by his emotional irrationality.

    But, wow, what’s going on now is something else. The judges report and now the tape of rudy’s cellmate. Hopefully, it’s finally becoming truly clear to the world at large that there is something very wrong going on in Italy. Good for the PR team, also. I’m hoping that there are some more bomb shells waiting to be fired to bring more attention to this travesty of justice.

  • billyryan

    forget massei twisted imagionations nobody believes his theory not even himself,the real story is rudi guede cellmate who has gone on tape with nothing to gain to sollecito lawyers to tell what i now think is the truth that merridith let rudi and a friend in the friend and rudi together caused merridith death the tape has been submitted to the perugia prosecuters office
    this cell mate is a murderer of a young boy a real bad man,i suppose as bad as the scum the fucking scum who post here and on other bloggs glorying in the suffering of a young girl and an honorable young man. this blogg has gone silent on a day when it should be bussing the scum who make up the haters/guilters are all thinking about the new twist

  • PhanuelB

    For anyone who would like to know the facts of the case please go to:

    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/

  • Mary H.

    Oops, where oh where, looks like I was subconsciously tainted by Al-Fakh — I inadvertently spelled your name “whore” oh where in my last post. Sorry about that! :P

    You’re right, billy — I took a gander at truejustice and the commentators are conspicuous by their absence. I imagine they have to let things swirl around in their little pea brains for awhile before they can decide on the next strategy.

    In the meantime, they did post kind of an interesting article by an Italian journalist about Amanda:

    Tuesday, March 02, 2010
    La Repubblica’s Riccardo Stagliano Reports On The Seattle End of The Case
    http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

  • Mary H.

    billy ryan wrote: “the judge called amanda and raffaela decent young people who acted without malice, without planning, i just wonder if he was attempting to open the door to release while the appeal takes place….”

    whore oh where wrote: “BillyRyan, I was kind of thinking the same thing this morning, that the judges were trying to tone down the perception of Amanda as the crazed killer. It would be easier for the public to accept when the appeals find her innocent. Easier on them, too.”

    I completely agree with you both. I thought something like that was going to happen last summer — that when they came back from their vacations the judges would all have had an “awakening,” or had been shown “new” evidence, which would allow them to acquit and still save face. I thought it again when the judge was sick for a few weeks — that, indeed, it was the case that was making him sick, and he was trying to find a way to distance himself from it.

    Well, I was wrong about the timing, but I think they are definitely preparing everyone now for the inevitable acquittal. The timing of the new Rudy Guede admission is a little too coincidental, as well; perhaps they engineered it so the two announcements would create a perfect storm of outrage.

    We all know what the initial argument by the guilters/haters will be against Rudy’s admission: “Are you going to believe the word of a convicted murderer?!”

    Ha ha ha….well, it certainly suited them to believe him when he said Amanda did it.

    billy also wrote: “…this judge and the judiciary and the prosecutors are well aware of the shame this case has brought on them and on italy and know that their enemies within italy are waiting and watching for their chance to move to limit their powers”

    And we can thank the Knox PR campaign for that! No wonder the anti’s are so afraid of it.

  • John Winters

    Anyone seen my ansafone?

  • John Winters

    CBS News said:

    ”Amanda Knox Bombshell: Convicted Killer Rudy Guede Told Cellmate Knox Didn’t Do It, Says Paper
    to CBS”

    Bombshell!!

  • John Winters

    ”something has spooked the haters something has made them silent”where oh where” any ideas”

    I’ll tell you whats spooked em billy

    get over to examiner ”Heartless in Seattle” NOW!!

    Rudy has admitted to his cellmate that Amanda and Raff weren’t there!!!!!

  • billyryan

    something has spooked the haters something has made them silent”where oh where” any ideas

  • billyryan

    “where oh where” in your second last post you bring something new into the equasion can you elaberate.the same story is on perusia shock it must be very important that frank reported it in the middle of judge massei attempt to lie his way out of the hole he dug for himself

  • where oh where?

    Oops, maybe she carried it in her pocket instead.

  • where oh where?

    OK, saw the reason for the knife. Raffaele, worried about Amanda’s safety, told her she should carry a 12″ long unsheathed kitchen knife in her purse for protection. So, Amanda took it out of her purse to murder Meredith. What a crock of sh*t!!!!

  • where oh where?

    Here is something very interesting, the original is at http://www.tgcom.mediaset.it/cronaca/articoli/articolo475741.shtml:

    Guede: “I know who killed Meredith”

    Confidence murderer Tommy

    Weird cross between two criminal cases of crime news: Meredith Kercher’s murder and the brutal murder of Tommaso Onofri. Rudy Guede, convicted of the murder of English student, said he would know who the real murderess “No Amanda and Raphael, but another man. ” To collect the indiscretion was Mario Alessi, who was also in jail, and condemned for having killed the little Tommy.

    Raffaele Sollecito’s defense has filed to the Prosecutor of Perugia the minutes of a deposition made by Alessi to the same legal defense, in surveys in which the builder reported that it had received from Rudy Guede, with which it is held in prison in Viterbo , confidences murder of Meredith Kercher. In particular the Ivorian exclude the liability of young Pugliese and Amanda Knox in the crimes indicated as responsible for another man not yet identified.

    Guede has confirmed (as always did) its presence in the house of the crime, claiming that it has ever known and I urge to have met only occasionally Knox. The Ivorian, according to the confidences gathered by Alessi, would also have reported that Kercher was to kill another man in the house on Via della Pergola on the night between the first and 2 November 2007.

    “No comment” on the filing of documents by a lawyer Luca Maori, young defender with Pugliese Giulia Bongiorno. “We maintain the utmost discretion – he continued Maori – because there are some documents being examined by the prosecutor who will decide for the best.”

  • where oh where?

    BillyRyan, I was kind of thinking the same thing this morning, that the judges were trying to tone down the perception of Amanda as the crazed killer. It would be easier for the public to accept when the appeals find her innocent. Easier on them, too. But, so far as I’ve read, this report is so full of contradictions it’s hard to know their intent. I’m still waiting to read on the transport of the knife.

  • billyryan

    As far as the haters/guilters were concerned this document was to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt why amanda and raffaela were guilty. The haters/guilters have gone very quite a lot of their thunder has been stolen
    while ever this miscarriage of justice continues i wonder can this judge expect the world to accept that amanda and raffaela just happened to run into rudy,they invited him back to the cottage while they were courting rudy went and attacked merridith instead of saving merridith,this couple who had no history of violence,joined with rudy to sexually assault,then they created criminal history they used a knife that was a mile away to cut merridith and then watched as she was stabed three times in the neck causing her death.then they created the second piece of criminal history they done the greatest cleanup in history they removed all traces of themselves from the murder room while leaving rudy dna in tact
    the judge called amanda and raffaela decent young people who acted without malice,without planing,i just wonder if he was attempting to open the door to release while the appeal takes place.he must surely know that the dna evidence is about as strong as his theory that that amanda and raffaela could have helped rudy guede kill merridith with a knife they couldnt have had with them.he was careful to identify rudy as the main attacker
    this judge and the judiscary and the prosecuters are well aware of the shame this case has brought on them and on italy and know that their enemies within italy are waiting and watching for their chance to move to limit their powers

  • where oh where?

    Well, from reading on the pmf site it looks like they’re going to buy the report hook, line and sinker. Some are outraged that Amanda is no longer the so called ring leader and others are saying something like, “I always knew it was a group dynamic thing,” which is, of course, ridiculous. They’ve crucified Amanda over there at that site as the psychopathic ringleader. But they have to reconcile the stupidity of the report with the fact that they totally support the Italian justice system and it therefore can do no wrong.

    Amanda’s supporters don’t have this problem since we know neither Amanda nor Raffaele were there. So this makes the report just as stupid as the arrest, the tabloid stories, the trial, and the conviction.

    However, at least one poster noticed the discrepancy in the fact of the unplanned murder and the knife from Raffaele’s house. I wonder how the pmf’ers will make this fact fit since neither the judges nor the jurors could. (Good for Billy Ryan in keeping this fact in front of us, even though it looks like he’ll get no answer.)

  • John Winters

    heeeeeeelp!

  • John Winters

    ”eventualita”….that’s what they call it when people who hardly know each other meet up one evening and murder someone together out of the blue…….

    …..I’m trying to understand……..

    ……but it’s very difficult, it’s so difficult……

    ….perhaps I’ve led a sheltered life….

    …..at this rate, I shall definitely develop agoraphobia…..

    ….eventualita, yeah…..

    ….eventualita….right…..yeah….

  • where oh where?

    Yeah, Mary, I agree. Why did they bother to have a trial when the judges and jury can make up whatever story they want. So far it looks like a ridiculous document and if it wasn’t such a serious situation I would be laughing till my sides hurt. I’ve yet to see how they reconcile the transporting of the knife with the spontaneous murder scenario they created. Poor Billy Ryan.

    But some of the guilters don’t seem too happy either. From the comments, I’ve noticed how upset they are with the way the judges said Amanda killed without malice, etc. But in the end, I’m sure they’ll find they’re usual excuses and then go on with their usual drivel about how perfect and without flaw the Italian judicial system is. Ugh.

  • Mary H.

    I’ve just started looking over the headlines. What jumps out is that the judges’ report seems to differ quite a bit from the prosecution’s case, which tells us they are desperate to put Amanda and Raffaele at the crime scene no matter how many ways they have to go about it.

  • where oh where?

    From the little I’ve seen the report is just a bunch of gobbity goop, makes no sense and gives no coherent explanations. I guess Italy enjoys it’s status as the world class laughing stock. I still wonder what will happen if/when the Innocence Project comes out and finds Amanda and Raffaele innocent of the murder.

  • John Winters

    Sorry, the expression quoted from Massei et al in the last post should read ”casual contingencies.”
    Unfortunately, this alteration doesn’t help with my comprehesion of it.

  • John Winters

    The ‘motivations’ are out. I don’t know very much about the law in Italy or any other country, but I believe Amanda Knox is not guilty of murder and I believe double that she was not responsible for stabbing anyone in Nov 07.
    Today I have to concede to Al-Fhak and his experience. I see now how right he is when he says that Amanda’s fate is in the hands of the Italian court and its judges, and that they will be the ones responsible for deciding her fate. If they decide she will stay in prison, then stay in prison she will.
    Al is right when he says that it matters not one jot what I say here, or what anyone in the world says about this case here, or on TV, or directly to the judges themselves. The Italian judges will make their decision removed from anyone else in the world and their opinion.
    When they say things like ”casual consistencies,” or that the case pointed to a ”necessary and consequential” outcome, I haven’t got the faintest idea what they are talking about, but as Al-Fhak has pointed out, I will have to just accept their decision to ignore public opinion and insist on pressing ahead with their prosecution.
    Al-Fhak, today I bow to you.

  • billyryan

    explaining to the world how you put two innocent people in jail and maintaning your credibitity is not allthat easy

  • Mary H.

    I don’t have any comments right now, but I just wanted to let you know Billy and Where, that I have read your posts and think they are truly excellent, with a lot of very important points.

  • where oh where?

    Is not the prosecution required to turn over all the evidence to the defense, including the electronic data files that came from the DNA evidence (called .fsa files) and also from the logs? Have these files and logs ever been turned over? Doesn’t look like it, so far.

    Why wouldn’t the prosecution turn over these files to the defense as required? Could it be the various independent forensic experts waiting in the wings to discredit this so called evidence? Especially on the double DNA knife and the bra clasp?

    We are all aware of the nine experts who signed the letter of protest to the Italians on this evidence. But there is also the Innocence Project and at least two British forensic scientists that we know of just waiting for the electronic data and the logs. The two Brits are already studying the DNA results and are just waiting to give their verdict once they receive the details on the methodology used by their Italian counterparts.

    So, what does all this mean? One thing, among many others, when the defense is given the complete data files and logs on the knife and bra clasp, it is highly likely they will release these findings to the various forensic scientists from around the world requesting them. If they do, it is highly likely that the letter of nine will be but a mild prequel to the protests made to the Italian judicial system about this dubious DNA evidence.

    It could also mean that the Innocence Project will find Amanda and Raffaele innocent long before any appeal is brought to court which would place the whole Italian judicial system in a rather awkward position. That of keeping two innocent people in prison for two more years while the long drawn out appeal’s process takes place. Yes, of course, Italy is in charge of this trial and has it’s own system and can, and I am sure, will do exactly what they want.

    But the Innocence Project has an impeccable reputation, freeing over 250 wrongly convicted people and sometimes actually finding who really did the crime. When the Innocence Project comes out officially with the fact that the DNA knife and bra clasp evidence is highly flawed and other forensic scientist from around the world find the same, (this includes two Brits from the land of Meredith Kercher), then everyone will know the truth. Amanda and Raffaele are 100% innocent.

  • where oh where?

    Just a thought, Meredith’s hard drive was fried along with Amanda’s. Could this be because there were also photos on Meredith’s hard drive showing the friendship between Amanda and Meredith? Could Meredith have written some nice things about Amanda that the prosecution didn’t want anyone to see?

  • billyryan

    Its now obvious that the motivations are not going to be released until there is no oftion but to release them. Chris mellas over on perugia shock says he knows for certain that one of the juryers did not believe that raffaela and amanda were guilty and the verdict was not unamamous. That same juryer now has to agree to the motivations.His/her doubts will no doubt have strenghtened with mignini conviction for abuse of power and attempting to put innocent people in jail. In relation to amanda the jury accepted the transportation of the knife to and from the cottage,no wittnesess were ever presented in court who saw it been transported,they just have mignini word for it,a now convicted criminal, and birds of a feather he was prepared to bring a jailed drug pusher out of jail to give evidence/lies for the prosecution.stefanoni lcn dna evidence has been destroyed by international dna experts,her own failure to release all the data in relation to the procedures followed and despite probally huge efforts no fornezic experts at home or abroad could be got to support the prosecution lcn dna evidence
    this same juryer knows that this case is going to be made into a film and more books are going to be written about the miscarriage of justice he participated in. In one or more of these books will be a photograph of the english girls who had dinner with merridith who let her walk home alone at night in a city she was not familar with and whom by twelve o clock the day after had not rang to find out if she had got home and if everything was alright.though they were slow to ring they were quick to point the finger at amanda who thought they were her friends and side with mignini
    on the next page will be a picture of the jury who sent an innocent couple to jail
    I do not know how long this miscarriage of justice will last but the truth always comes out in the end

  • PhanuelB

    Some choice quotes from the Donald’s radio appearance last night:

    “There’s no evidence that links her to this crime”

    “It’s amazing a lot of people in Italy think she’s guilty, but the evidence isn’t there”

    “He[Mignini]‘s a maniac and I’ve watched this maniac who’s being prosecuted for abuse and it wouldn’t matter to him if she was innocent or guilty. He just wanted to bring in the scalp. He looks like a madman to me. He looks like an absolute maniac. A nut job in my opinion.”

    I think the president should get involved, This is a miscarriage of justice. I think the president should absolutely get involved and I think people should boycott Italy. They should not go to Italy. This is not a close call that she may be guilty. She’s not guilty!”

    If Italy needs somebody to fire Mignini we’ve got just the man for them.

  • Mary H.

    MORE GOOD NEWS!

    A well known local reporter from Seattle’s ABC affiliate interviewed Donald Trump and they played the report on the news tonight. Trump called for President Obama to get involved and get Amanda out, and he called Mignini a “maniac!” One more defamation lawsuit for Mignini, no doubt.;)

    Nice cojones, Donald!

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/85925657.html

  • Mary H.

    Where oh where, some of our friends have posted on this article today from the New York Post:

    http://www.nypost.com/p/pagesix/foxy_knoxy_bias_victim_7ZKEqKbZxzRs7bGsEmTVXK#postyourcomment

    Someone named tomr wrote an excellent summary of the essence of the case:

    tomr

    03/01/2010 5:56 AM

    “I’ve actually become fascinated by all the twisted logic and scenarios that show a great discomfort with the truth of her innocence. Clearly, some have made a substantial emotional investment in
    the belief that Amanda is guilty.
    It was a physical impossibility to participate in this horrible crime without leaving substantial DNA evidence in the room where the crime took place. That’s why Rudy Guede’s forensic evidence is all over the room. After all, HE did the crime.
    Now, find one piece of irrefutable evidence that Amanda and Raffaele were in the room when the murder took place.
    Just ONE piece of IRREFUTABLE evidence that they were there. Like a bloody thumb print. You can’t because they weren’t there. Every piece of evidence that was offered by the prosecution was demolished by the defense. That’s important because Amanda lived at the residence and Raffaele had visited several times. One needs to establish their presence in the room when the murder took
    place because she lived at the residence and he visited. They are both innocent. I know that the truth of that hurts some people. They want to believe what Amanda wanted to believe: that an innocent person doesn’t get convicted of a crime that they didn’t commit. Very sadly it happens.

    All theories and stories about cleaning have been debunked.
    That’s why the prosecution never made the “cleaning” a part of their case. The logic of being able to clean up one’s own evidence while leaving Rudy’s behind doesn’t exist.

    The “guilties” cite 10,000 pages of evidence about the crime. It’s the interpretation of the RELEVANT evidence that matters.

    They weren’t in the room when the murder took place.

    If they were, the relevant evidence would show that.

    It doesn’t. End of story.”

  • where oh where?

    Lots of interesting posts from Chris Mellas on Perugia Shock. But where else are people posting? I’m sooo busy at work I only have few minutes to search. I know most of us are awaiting that report with baited breath.

  • Mary H.

    That’s very interesting, Billy; thank you for letting us know. Also — it’s so typical of the truejustice set, who claimed that the defense “declined the invitation” to attend the LCN testing. Every time they make a claim like that, you find out they have left out one essential detail or another.

  • billyryan

    everybody is holding their fire waiting for the motivations. I read over on perugia shock,a post by chris mellas in relation to their lawyers being at the lcn testing of the knife blade
    The police rang to say that the testing on the knife was about to go ahead their lawyers luciano ghirga and carlo were both in court on other business at the time the test was being performed in rome a couple of hours away,they looked for the test to be delayed so they could attend,this request was refused and the prosecution appointed an independant witness as their representative,according to chris mellas they by law were entitled to a three hour notice of any official function,and they were not given this in this instant.Up to this point everything that the prosecution had tested to build a case against amanda knox came up negative this was their last chance
    the convicted criminal that gathered/planted the evidence in this case an oppertunity was presented to abuse his power like he has now being convicted of doing in the past,

  • Mary H.

    Yeah, the examiner sucks.

    I have to apologize to Al. On the examiner he tells me he did not get that link to Micheli’s report from this page. Sorry again, Al!

  • PhanuelB

    The Examiner blog only keeps the last 20 posts around. This one will make a thousand before we’re done.

  • Mary H.

    The funny thing, John, is that Al-Fak just posted the link on the examiner blog, saying, “I found this translation of Micheli’s report.”

    To which I replied, “LOL!!! ROFL!!!”

  • John Winters

    I’ve just had a closer look at the Micheli site I helpfully guided everyone to yesterday. To my horror, it wasn’t the competent translation I thought it was when I first saw it. At that point, I read a few lines and must have read something by chance that half resembled the English language and hurried off to Punchline to tell you all about it. I have just realised it is in fact the same ”translation” (did I just say that?), as the Penale one though I think it tries to sort out who the initials are referring to so that the reader gets some help working out who’s doing what to whom in Micheli’s circus.

    Mea culpa!!

  • PhanuelB

    Regarding the “Judge Micheli Report”

    When he says “K” does he mean Knox or Kercher? It does seem like there are inconsistencies.
    Is “R” Rudy or Raffaele?

    I don’t speak Italian but I do speak a similar romance language pretty well so can get most of it without the Google translator.

    The big question is whether this thing is a hack job. I don’t understand why the initials are used. It does appear to make the thing unreadable. If there is a need to guard privacy by redacting names then why use the initials?

    In US legal documents it’s common to use shortened names for parties frequently referenced in a document. In all cases the abbreviation is clearly defined early on and all subsequent references must be consistent.

    I’ve wondered in the past whether “Judge” Micheli had issues with legal style. Stay tuned.

  • Mary H.

    Thank you, John; it is a lot easier to get through than the Italian version.

  • John Winters

    I assume nobody’s posted here for some time because you’re all avidly reading the juicy English translation of Micheli’s sweet ”rationale” I pointed ya’ll to!

    Makes a nice change to be able to see who’s supposed to be doing what to whom for once. And that’s no joke!

  • where oh where?

    Thanks Mary for the good news and thanks John for the link. My copy of the micheli report had all those initials and made my head swim when reading it. And I agree with your sentiments.

  • John Winters

    Sorry, I’m forgetting my manners. That last post is also addressed to all the other people who post on Amanda’s behalf on these blogs of course.

    The rest of you, I hope YOU get slung in prison one day for something YOU didn’t do, and rot there for the rest of your miserable lives.

  • John Winters

    Mary H.

    I know you’ve seen the pass the paracetamol website version of Micheli’s report at http://www.penale. But have you seen:

    http ://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AToWexHWXGUuZGR0OXBycDdfOWNkbjZiYmht&hl=en

    !!

  • PhanuelB

    Carlo Parlanti could be pardoned by the Governor of California but not by the US President.

  • Mary H.

    Billy, here is some good news from the Irish Times:

    DNA testing project offers fresh hope to the wrongfully convicted

    http: //www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0227/1224265260550.html

    “A forensic genetics expert, Dr Hampikian’s expertise is called on by the Innocence Project all over the US and further afield. He is currently working with the family of Amanda Knox, the American student jailed in Italy last year for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher.”

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    PhallusB writes: “Yes. Obama does have the power to order [Carlo Parlanti] released.”

    Obama can’t even pass any legislation in Congress when his own party has an overwhelming majority, so I can just imagine how “good” your suntanned Messiah President would be at reversing a verdict rendered by California courts.

    In any case, even assuming you’re right (which you’re not) then I can tell you that Berlusconi doesn’t have that power. The President of Italy (not the Prime Minister) has the right to pardon a convicted person, but there is a specific procedure for that, and it doesn’t include pressure from the friends and family of the convicted from a foreign country.

  • billyryan

    time has run out judge massei has to tell the world why in his and the jury oppinion amanda knox and raffaela sollecito transported a knife to and from raffaela apartment to the cottage were amanda and merridith lived without premeditating murder

    either way he goes about explaining it this verdict is wrong,if he says the murder was not premeditated then they did not bring the knife,stefanoni lcn test is meaningless,there is no crediable evidence against amanda knox and by implication raffaela,the verdict is wrong and they should be released

    if he sticks by the jurys oppinion that they brought the knife with them then the murder was premeditated and the sentance should have been life in jail with day time sollitary for the first nine months italy harshest sentence

    this is his day on the world stage,maybe he is hoping that nobody will question his sending two young people to jail for twelve months for transporting a knife,they hadent any plans for it,but they brought it with them because ?????????????????

    i be willing to bet privatly he has got an oppinion on the reliability of stefanoni lcn dna evidence and he now knows he has sent two innocent young people to jail,he is on a world stage,who knows what he might do

  • PhanuelB

    @Al-Fakh Yugoudh: “So are you telling me that if Berlusconi complained to Obama about Carlo Parlanti, Obama could simply tell the California judges to release Parlanti”

    Yes. Obama does have the power to order him released.

  • billyryan

    al_suck__fuck_duck why dont you go back to the kiddy porn that satisfied your sadism before this case came along

  • Mary H.

    Grim, if you seriously would like information about the case, there are several websites you can visit. truejusticeformeredithkercher is not one of them. Everything on there is edited to support the pro-guilt position. The writers deliberately leave out information in order to manipulate their readers, for whom they obviously have no respect.

    I recommend this site, which also provides links to other sites: http://knoxarchives.blogspot.com/

    If anyone is saying “because I said so,” it is Mignini and the pro-guilt side. When Amanda was taken in for questioning, there was not one iota of evidence against her. Mignini just wanted her to be the murderer, so he got to work creating evidence.

    If you give Amanda’s supporter one piece of evidence that you think points to Amanda’s guilt, they can rebut it factually and scientifically. Her enemies simply choose to deny reality.

  • grim

    Every time somebody here gives some kind of concrete comment as to why or if. They get attacked. That’s because some of you idiots that inhabit this space have little going for them. I remember on another web blog Al-Fakh Yogoudh laid out as to why both should be found guilty. I must have taken him days to type it because it was very concise and in depth and told the truth. It raised all the salient points as well, never mind the pros and cons and I commend him for taking the trouble.
    However what did you lot do Hmmm? All you did was totally ignore what he wrote and concentrate instead on his unfortunate name. That is why given the level of intelligence here it’s difficult to get a complete picture or comprehensive take on anything since you obviously have so much bias one way or the other.
    Mary H is a great example.
    She chides people for their stupidity thereby diminishing her own which could be real input into this discussion. This proves to me the old saying “All poodles are dogs. yet all dogs are not poodles.” If that’s too deep for you then please take a correspondence course in anything other than truck driver. Please.. If you have any formation that’s worth anything except screaming “They’re innocent because I say so.” then please contribute.

  • Mary H.

    Meanwhile, there is some very funny stuff on the blog at the Seattle P-I.

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/hottopics/archives/195576.asp?page=1#comments

    ronulus (aka Harry Rag) called Oprah poor and ignorant for having been fooled by Amanda’s family. Another poster mentioned “….the neighbors house through which they staged the break-in…” and “…including the defamation charge for lying about who killed Meredith.”

    “fred sanchez” wrote this: “Initially when the news broke some interesting factoids came out about a bank withdrawal Meredith made 2 days prior to her death, of 250 Euro required to pay her rent, the landlord never received the money, and when Amanda was searched after being held she still had 215 Euro on her, and they suspect that the remainder was given to Guede to pay his escape back to Germany, which is a crime in itself, aiding and abetting a known criminal.”

    OMG!

    Commissario Montalbano (Ivstitia) was over there, too,
    posting his usual BS about the Italian legal system. As if having laws implies prosecutors and judges follow them.

  • Mary H.

    Hi Billy ~ I haven’t watched it yet, so I can’t really comment. Also, I haven’t looked at Facebook or otehr pro-Amanda sites in a couple of days so I don’t know how well the show was received. It’s easy to lose track of what the real world thinks about things when you spend your time dealing with the likes of the low-life you sadists you mentioned.

    Bille Edelblute wrote a junior-high level piece on the examiner, pretending to care about Amanda’s younger sisters. It’s a good study of hypocrisy. The blog there is currently being monpolized by endelss lists provided by Al and someone calling himself Harry Ragu.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-32288-Spokane-Elections-2010-Examiner~y2010m2d24-Amanda-Knox-parents-and-children–try-case–on-tv-today-is-Oprah-their-new-Senator-Cantwell

  • Harry Ragu

    Amanda’s DNA found:
    1. On the double DNA knife: all the prosecution’s experts along with all the experts provided by the civil case attorneys categorically stated Meredith’s LCN DNA was on the knife even though they used all the DNA up so they couldn’t really prove it or not
    2. A’s DNA was found on her own basin that she used everyday to wash her hands, etc., and she shared with Meredith, mixed with Meredith’s blood.
    3. A’s DNA (small traces that could come from any matter) in her own bidet where she washed her boodie everyday mixed with Meredith’s blood.
    4. A’s DNA found on her own box of QTips which she used everyday mixed with Meredith’s blood.
    5. A’s DNA found in her own hallway she used everyday, mixed with something because the luminol glowed but it was never tested for blood but the DNA test came up negative so it was mixed with something.
    6. In Filomena’s room on the floor but it was only maybe compatible with A’s DNA, compatible 90%, 50%, 1%? What the h*ll is compatible?
    7. A partial bloody shoe print was found on a pillowcase under Merdith’s body with the same sole pattern as the Nike Outbreak shoes Rudy Guede was wearing the night of the murder. Because it was a partial print the prosecution claimed it was the size of shoe Amanda wears but could produce neither any shoes of Amanda’s to fit the pattern, nor any ladies shoe anywhere to fit the pattern. Under further inspection, several more partial shoe prints matching Rudy’s Nike Outbreaks were found on the pillowcase along with Rudy’s palm print and DNA.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billyterate.ignoryant wrote:
    “there are no worse scenarios in life than serving time in prison for a crime you did not commit.”

    I know. That’s why it’s so sad to know about Carlo Parlanti.

    Amanda however did commit the crime, so what’s the problem?

  • Where oh where?

    Ivs, I come from a place that knows the absolute destruction that a wayward prosecutor and forensic scientist can do. It happens in the US and in all countries, the abuse of power, as you well know. I’m signing a petition here to help bring the forensic scientist to justice and I’ll keep writing about what I feel is an abuse of power in Perugia. Whether anyone is reading or not.

    By the way, in the end, both the Tin Man and the Scare Crow figured out they were missing nothing and all of Oz knew it and loved them. They all lived happily ever after.

  • John Winters

    Ivstitia

    Thanks very much. As ever, your invaluable help is comprehensive and clear. I hope you’re not going to send me a bill at the end of all this when Amanda is acquitted.

  • billyryan

    those of ye that live in the USA i am sure ye have by now watched oprah live or taped and watched it since. was it a good show were ye happy with how it went.i read one report of edda going to the prison and holding a crying amanda in her arms for 45 minutes i just knew this kind of thing was happening,it truly discusts me to come on here and read the lowlife saddists who glory in this happening.there are no worse scenarios in life than serving time in prison for a crime you did not commit.
    do ye think this show will bring it to a bigger audience that might make the most powerful politicans in the world take action

  • Shane

    grim said: “There’s a lot more going on here than just a simple trial and verdict. Do you really believe the Italian Government will fold and take the risk of giving the impression that they caved under US pressure. Don’t think so.”

    Mignini’s conviction for abuse of office gives them rather a convenient out though, doesn’t it? If the court acquits, the errors made in the original conviction will be blamed on Mignini and the Italian justice system comes out of the whole thing looking rather good. They have nothing to fear from an acquittal, now.

  • IVSTITIA

    Hello posters. Long time no see. Glanced through the comments quickly in the last few days. Not much new except for the usual rants. Anyway, before I get back to work, I’ll get to John Winters the info he needs on the appeal terms.

    Art. 585 of the CPP governs the terms of appeal. There are several dispositions in this article depending on each case, but for Amanda’s case, which is considered a “complex” trial, the terms to file an appeal is within 45 days from the date the Motivations are due to be deposited in court. I believe the 90 days for the deposit expire on March 4. As a result, Knox/Sollecito (and also the prosecutor, which has the right to appeal as well), must file a request for appeal by April 18, 2010. After the Court of Appeal acquires the request, they will communicate to the parties of the process the commencement of the Appeal at least 20 days before the start of the first hearing. You should expect that the first hearing could occur any time next fall. The average length of an appeal for a full trial is 2 years, therefore it should be over by 2012. The Supreme Court’s decision generally comes about a year after the appeal, however consider that the Supreme Court could remand the case to the lower court if it finds certain legal errors. Sometime it could remand to the lower court just to correct the prison terms in the sentence, if it believes that the number of years are incorrectly applied, or if they are inconsistent with Guede’s years (assuming that the supreme court upholds the fact the 3 committed the crime together).

    On Mignini’s comments I read above, you’re simply giving him too much credit. Assistant prosecutors (Mignini is the equivalent of an Assistant D.A. in the US) don’t have all that power. He’s not even the head of that prosecutor’s office, he’s just one of less than a dozen assistant prosecutors in Perugia, who is competent to try cases only on the first trial (it’s a totally different prosecutor’s office which handles the appeal). The notion that this guy could be more powerful than even his own boss, than the judges, and than the Appeal Prosecuting office (which is a higher office) is total bonk. But if it makes you feel better to think he’s like the wizard of Oz, go ahead. You’re also free to think that it’s just a drug induced dream and Amanda will be back at her prairie home in Kansas (actually Wash.) with her dog Toto very soon. But is Raffaele the Tin Man or the Scarecrow?

  • Where oh where?

    grim said: “Mary H……….. By saying that “There isn’t a single shred of evidence against them.” you tip your hand as to your obvious bias. How can you possibly say that with a straight face.”

    From reading what Mary has written on this site and many others, I would say that she has a very good grasp of the evidence in this trial. I don’t see where bias comes into this when she is giving her opinion and she usually backs her opinions up with references.

    You, grim, on the other hand, seem to be getting a little hysterical. You fling Meredith’s name around like it is a weapon. You seem to think that we can’t respect Meredith and know that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent. You might look to yourself when fling out accusations of bias.

  • Where oh where?

    grim, still so grim. As has been repeatedly pointed out by Al and Ivs on this site, no one in Perughia can touch mignini the prosecutor, not the mayer, not the police, not the people themselves. The “Superior Council” appoints all judges and prosecutors and only this council has any say about the actions of the appointees. Basically, mignini can do pretty much what he wants as long as he does it in Perugia and it resembles actions of carrying out the law. Of course, when he tried his tricks in Florence, I guess he overstepped his bounds in a big way.

    But I do think that mignini thinks of himself as being clever. I like your analogy of the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain. Fits mignini to a T. He thinks of himself as being able to out smart everyone but he is about as transparent as that poor wizard who couldn’t even fool a little dog or a cowardly lion.

    You know, grim, I think I recognize your writing style from other sites and it seems to me you talk so much about therapy and psychoanalysis that you must be well acquainted with some therapist somewhere, especially with a name like “grim”.

    I have no problem with authority and I do think sarah palin is funny.

  • grim

    Finally Mary H
    Yes I’ll be your straight man because your pronouncements here as to the innocence of these two is really a laughing matter and I thank you for the continuous humor. Makes my day

  • grim

    I just read ‘Where Oh Where’s’ comment from yesterday the 23rd. Needed a good laugh anyway…………

    You sir should seek therapy. Do you really believe that Mignini is this all-powerful evil genius and Italy’s answer to Wily Coyote? You’ll be telling us next that you love Sarah Palin’s intelligence. Seems to me though you think Mignini is the wizard of ozz behind the curtain pulling all those strings. Tell me do you go out at night at all? Also you obviously have this fear of anybody in authority. Yep! you’re definitely a case for good psychoanalysis. Hope you get well real soon.

  • grim

    Mary H……….. By saying that “There isn’t a single shred of evidence against them.” you tip your hand as to your obvious bias. How can you possibly say that with a straight face. I notice too that Oprah was not exactly commiserating in her interview with the parents. Also it’s very sad that in all these blogs I never find the name of Meridith Kercher anymore, because your all on the same futile merry-go-round of pronouncing Knox & Solicito’s innocence. Having said that you can all now collectively throw up your hands in horror about how bad the murder was.

  • Mary H.

    This sounds like one of our discussions:

    “What Elizabeth found was that a lot of people she spoke to in Italy simply believe the prosecution’s case and a lot of people she spoke to in the U.S. believed the defense’s case.

    “There are differences,” she said, “and there’s a reflex of defensiveness in Italy when you question why don’t you sequester your jurors, why don’t you screen them for a bias? Why is a prosecutor who himself is under indictment for abuse of office allowed to prosecute probably the most infamous murder trial in many, many years in this country?”

    Elizabeth said she found a lot of push-back when they asked those questions like “You Americans, you think your system of justice is better than ours” and there was very much a resistance to looking into what might not be a fair process given their point of view.”

    http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m2d23-Elizabeth-Vargas-says-this-has-been-a-nightmarish-ordeal-for-Amanda-Knoxs-family

  • John Winters

    Could I call for a time-out and ask anyone who knows about this, when exactly is Amanda’s first appeal hearing set? When will we know the date?

    Thanks.

  • Mary H.

    “How exactly do I get into your small uneducated mind” that if two completely innocent people can be convicted of a murder without a single shred of evidence against them, then anything can happen?

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Mary (empty)H.ead: “Who cares if Berlusconi has no power over the judges in Italy? The rest of the world thinks he does, or he should, so if the rest of the world wants Berlusconi to tell the judge to release Amanda, he will do it.”

    I don’t know if such stupid remark even deserves a reply. How exactly do I get into your small uneducated mind that the representatives of the executive power, in this case Berlusconi, does not have the authority to request the judiciary to take any action contrary to law and legal procedure?

    I understand that you may have your educational training (if you had any) in fields such as Women’s Studies, or some other useless subject like that, but in a democratic country you can’t go to the head of Government and demand from him that s/he tell some judges (representatives of the judicial power) to release an inmate just because, in your opinion (which isn’t even shared by 80% of the Italian population), that inmate may be innocent.

    Italy is not North Korea. The head of Government of a democratic country doesn’t have that kind of power. So are you telling me that if Berlusconi complained to Obama about Carlo Parlanti, Obama could simply tell the California judges to release Parlanti, just because the head of a foreign Government asked him to? I don’t think so!! Obama doesn’t have such power, so what makes you think Berlusconi does? Obviously because you’re just an ignorant dumbkopf.

    The fate of Amanda is in the hands of the judges and the judges only. They will decide on the case based on the evidence with total disregard of any public opinion pressure (which, by the way, so far there is none, because the Amanda Knox saga has totally disappeared from the Italian media and therefore from the attention of the Italian public).

  • Mary H.

    Thanks, Where oh where — the “anybody with half a brain” comment was too good to pass up. Grim, you make a great straight man.

    You must have missed it yesterday when Where oh where posted, “….one man controls all the players. Mignini, as prosecutor of Perugia, has enormous power over the police, is friends and colleagues with all the judges, and controls the press.”

    Not sure Mignini’s brain has much to do with anything here. Any prosecutor who sends investigators into a crime scene six weeks later to videotape themselves picking up and oohing and aahing over a bra clasp as they pass it from hand to hand has disengaged his brain long ago.

    Al, once again, Italian popular opinion will have little to do with anything in the end. Just as Amanda’s image in the media got her arrested and convicted, it will get her out. Who cares if Berlusconi has no power over the judges in Italy? The rest of the world thinks he does, or he should, so if the rest of the world wants Berlusconi to tell the judge to release Amanda, he will do it.

    Grim asked a question worth keeping in mind: “Do you really think that CNN won’t notice?”

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Italians won’t give a $hit about Tom Cruise and his flop movies the same way the Germans didn’t give a $hit about his Walkirie movie, another flop.
    You guys are a bunch of dreamers addicted to TV watching, when in fact Italians don’t spend in front of TV half of the time Americans do. If you think that Italian judges are going to cave in because a murderer’s parents are featured on a popular American TV show totally unknown in Italy, you are seriously affected by Yankee megalomania. What America and Americans think of this case is absolutely inconsequential to the case. Italian judges will apply only one criterion in their decision: examination of the evidence. Oprah is nobody overthere.

  • Where oh where?

    grim, why so grim? Could it be you’re feeling grim over the outcome of this case? Are you grimly aware that the longer this case goes on and the more flurries of interest generated equals the more people who find out about this once labeled “railroad job from h*ll”? And, yep, you can just grimly bet that there will be flurry after flurry of interest for as long as it takes to free Amanda and Raffaele.

  • grim

    sorry you’re wrong the general public world wide could really care less. Oh sure I bet there will be a flurry of activity sometime next month. But the world has moved on. Nobody really cares least of all me who is innocent or guilty here.

  • Where oh where?

    grim said: “There’s a lot more going on here than just a simple trial and verdict. Do you really believe the Italian Government will fold and take the risk of giving the impression that they caved under US pressure.”

    The problem here is that the pressure will never stop until this is resolved, and the pressure is not just from the US. Look into the future and you see lots more negative publicity as this case becomes the scientific bench mark of what not to do with DNA. There are movies and books coming out and I would place a bet that the prosecutor in this case will be portrayed in the darkest of ways. And the Italian police, yikes, maybe the keystone cops will be brought back. “The Monster of Florence” movie is also due out sometime soon and how do you think mignini and the Italian police are going to fare in this drama? Since Tom Cruise is involved in this project, it will be very hard to ignore by the Italians.

    grim, I know you will come back with a so what, but it looks like the Italians are going to be the center of this sh*t storm for a long, long time. And become a laughing stock Better to cut bait and run now so they will at least have some “face” left.

  • grim

    Dream on Where Oh Where. Guilters? Ha! That’s not even a word! Thank you for underscoring my comment about half a brain.

  • Where oh where?

    grim said; ““It’s all Mignini’s fault that Amanda Knox was railroaded.” This of course is nonsense because if anybody with half a brain was being investigated for anything, then they would be extra careful that any subsequent trial they conducted would be squeaky clean.”

    The size of mignini’s brain could certainly be questioned. He thinks his is powerful and very very clever and that he can pull the wool over everyone’s eyes and we won’t notice what he’s doing. Maybe in Italy he can fool some people, but the rest of the world is also looking at this case and, thank goodness, most of them aren’t fooled.

    By the way, isn’t your argument about anyone with half a brain not acting dumbly the same argument the guilters are using against Amanda and Raffaele?

  • grim

    Do you really think that CNN won’t notice. Really. Well we’ll just have to wait and see won’t we. As to the eventual verdict, appeals not withstanding, I don’t think the Italian Justice System will simply roll over no matter what Oprah says. There’s a lot more going on here than just a simple trial and verdict. Do you really believe the Italian Government will fold and take the risk of giving the impression that they caved under US pressure. Don’t think so. Hysteria notwithstanding I hope the verdict will be guilty as it should be given the evidence. And NO I’m not going to get into this point by point. Just follow the case history because no amount of hand wringing is going to change that.

  • John Winters

    Grim says:

    ”I just wait in the hope that someone will write something of intelligence instead of writing impressions based on hysteria.”

    Keep up Grim! The hysteria went out of this case when it no longer sold gutter press funny papers in Italy back in early 2009. Since then, it’s enjoyed another quick flurry when the sentencing was done in December. But it looks like that’s about it for the hysteria. When it comes to the appeal, I doubt this case will be selling one of those flat toilet rolls so it’ll get dropped from the editorials like hot patooties. That done, there’s just the sober process where everyone in the Italian judiciary starts looking at each other with those ‘what the hell have we done, and what the hell are we going to do about it now’ looks on their sombre faces. After that, it’s just a case of hushing everything up while we acquit Amanda and spirit her back to the States hopefully without anyone noticing.

  • grim

    A Small Codicil….

    No Mary H I have not turned tail and run. I just wait in the hope that someone will write something of intelligence instead of writing impressions based on hysteria. As to the Oprah show. Well I suppose she has to talk about something. Given her reputation though she will probably remain neutral.

  • grim

    I read these blogs with growing sadness at the drivel that most of you write. Its sad that you continue to live down to my expectations. Here’s an example. I read some dweeb write somewhere here that “It’s all Mignini’s fault that Amanda Knox was railroaded.” This of course is nonsense because if anybody with half a brain was being investigated for anything, then they would be extra careful that any subsequent trial they conducted would be squeaky clean. So please continue to grasp at straws, because of course they are both guilty even if its by association and no amount of inventing half truths and maybes or regurgitating myths to bolster a faint hope of innocence is going to work. You had better get used to that.

  • Mary H.

    Thank you, Where oh where, billy and John for your eloquent analyses today of the essential elements of the case. Grim seems to have turned tail and run, Wow, after your expose of the “missing” evidence. And thanks, Enzo, for the compliment! (Exclamation point, just for you.)

    Al, you make me laugh, but you seem to be unfamiliar with the reality that great writers have editors; hence, they don’t have to follow the rules when they’re putting down their thoughts. billy is obviously an educated and thoughtful man, so what difference does it make if he writes like James Joyce?

    Hey, I’ve gotten about 20 Google notices today about Oprah’s show tomorrow. I work in the afternoon and evening so can’t watch it, but that’s okay; I’m sure it will be in the news — a LOT.

  • billyryan

    al_fuck_suck by using your own analysis in 2013 the italian supreme court can aquit amanda and raffaela and decide there are innocent,only a sheep shager like it is increasingly ovious you are could defend that justice system
    you and another blogger posted that if amanda is innocent and yet she spends fifteen years in jail and what follows then is it financial slavery on release to rhe kercher family too bad “shit happens” you say you were in the police over there for one year,i reckon you were sacked for being a pervert when they discovered you reading about innocent people in jail and then heading out into the countryside to shag a sheep
    what did you get your kicks out of before this case enabled you to get it up,was it reading about child murders and child rapes

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billyterate.ignoryant: How about leaving your sheep to pasture on their own in the emerald island and going back to school? Your spelling is getting worse by the day. It must be because Gaelic is your first language, or more probably because you spend too much time with the sheep that you started to forget human language. Look, the problem with the Italian justice system is due to its long drawn out process which makes trials last years, it’s not due to innocent people being convicted. As a matter of fact Italy has the lowest prison population for every 100,000 of any country in the world, bar Denmark. If anything, Italy has the opposite problem, that they don’t jail enough. Everybody in Italy, from politicians to journalists to the people at large complain that in Italy nobody goes to prison. So what the hell are you talking about? Why don’t you read about the European criticism of Italian justice. It has to do with the slow lengthy trials, not with the conviction of innocent people.
    Oopss! I forgot. You can’t read.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John Winters:

    “… which was not easy to get away with when you’ve got people like John Winters and Mary H. breathing down your necks. Albanian immigrants, no problem, but JW and Mary, you know yourself Enzo.”

    Breathing down my neck ? What neck ?

    Listen, you believe in Knox’s innocence. God’s speed to all of you. How’s that ?

    “Now Oprah’s joining in as well!”

    What is she joining ? But, whatever you think she is joining, again, great. More power to you.

    You want to know what I think? I have 2 daughters; one is 18. And I got thinking lately, what a nightmare it would be for a parent if he were Mredith’s father. Then I got thinking what a nightmare it would be if he was Curt Knox.

    And then I thought about Amanda. And I said to myself, if she were my daughter, how grateful I wouwld be if I had people like JW, Mary H and et…

    Really … so fight on.

    dixi

  • John Winters

    billy ryan says:

    ”he has watched his family almost destroyed he has remained true to himself and through to amanda he has in no way turned on his girlfriend of eight days,no statment like, i wish i never met her has ever been spoken by him,when his total innocence is eventually proven raffaela will be a respected man.”

    This is a very interesting observation, and how true. Raffaele is intense and highly sophisticated all at the same time. He doesn’t wear his principles on his sleeve, but by virtue of the fact that he is indeed as Billy has illustrated him to be, it can be assumed that he is obviously quietly and steadfastly guided by them.

  • billyryan

    A week ago getting on oprah was impossable,and now it is not, who knows president obama might be next as a non us citisin he is very much liked by other leaders as a man who will listen not dictate to you.wars have being fought over less than what has happened to this young girl.i have a feeling us pride will not allow the disgraceful treatment she has endured to continue.raffaela solecito he met a beautiful foreigner at the chocolate festival it was love at first sight,even though he has done two years and three months in jail,based on the flight risk amanda was seen as,he has watched his family almost destroyed he has remained true to himself and through to amanda he has in no way turned on his girlfriend of eight days,no statment like, i wish i never met her has ever been spoken by him,when his total innocence is eventually proven raffaela will be a respected man,
    there never has or never will be another case like this one,this case has drawn the italian justice system into the gutter it has shown the power an italian prosecuter has. there is one very important man who could be following this case now for years judges and prosecuters have being trying to get him,he may just be hoping the us president and secetary of state would contact him complaining about the perugia pervert mignini,this might be the chance he has been waiting for to get support to reduce these people power by an act of parlment
    anyway i believe amanda will be home in 2010
    where oh where john winters and mary H keep up the good work

  • billyryan

    I am amased at people here praising the italian justice system as a citisin of the EEC it has been often critised as the worst in the union and that fact is not challenged by berlusconi,and in order to stem the critism he introduced the fast track trial.to reduce the number of peole who are found innocent but yet have spent five years in jail,any justice system that condems innocent people to five years in jail is a kangaroo system.the present system was put in place to solve problems created by mussolini.as often happens in life your solutions to your problems become your new problems.possible worse than anything mussolini could do it has given men like guiliano mignini power and made italian justice the sick man of europe
    I am absolutably delighted edda and kurt are going to be on oprah,they are exceptional parents as is amanda, the terrible nightmare they have endured as they have watched there beautiful daughter defamed, charged and framed she appeared in front of them in court they could not touch her not talk to her they watched the jurers sleep while the defence arguments were presented.going on national tv is not something that comes easy to everybody but they will do anything face any situation for amanda,because they have faced the terrible truama of parting with a crying amanda in capiana.i once had a friend whose family and himself were caught up in the conflict in northern ireland i once asked him how he managed to stick it,his answer was injustice makes you tough

  • Where oh where?

    John Winters said: “The DNA tests for Guede happen to involve large doses of RFUs taken from like, clothing, and simply do not have problems attached to their capture because there were no…”

    Can you imagine the chagrin at the forensics lab. They thought all these copious DNA samples would produce DNA matches with Amanda, Raffaele and Patrick. They merrily went on their way and processed sample after sample and, low and behold, they all did match, to each other. But not to any of the three arrested. What to do? What to do?

    Well, we know the outcome of that question.

  • Where oh where?

    grim said: “Either Knox is guilty or the entire Italian Judiciary is on some kind of conspiracy against her and Solecito.”

    I don’t know if it is considered a conspiracy when one man controls all the players. mignini, as prosecutor of Perugia, has enormous power over the police, is friends and colleagues with all the judges, and controls the press. As prosecutor he directs the investigation, basically it goes the way he wants it to go. His minions are trapped into doing what he asks, in fear of being fired, or worse, if they question him. The press is in fear of being blackballed and/or sued if they print what mignini doesn’t want printed.

    mignini wants/needs Amanda and Raffaele to be guilty and uses his absolute power to see this come to pass.

    So, do I believe that all the people involved met is some little room at the end of a dark alley to conspire against Amanda and Raffaele? No, it took only one powerful person with a bunch of cowardly followers to perpetrate this criminal persecution.

    Now, I have to wonder what will happen since it looks like mignini is being pushed out of the picture. Will he loose control of all those minions he has bullied into submission? All it takes is one to start talking and then the whole house of cards will come tumbling down. I wonder, who will be the fall guy? stephonini had better watch her back.

  • John Winters

    ”DNA tests are ok for Guede but not for K/S. OK, I say.”

    The DNA tests for Guede happen to involve large doses of RFUs taken from like, clothing, and simply do not have problems attached to their capture because there were no problems attached to their capture because they were authentic captures, lots of fluorescent units available from items bagged on the first day of discovery and not left behind to be kicked around, trodden on, licked, flicked or used as pretend tennis balls.

    The DNA captures attached to Sollecito and Amanda however, are problematic because they had to be invented, which was not easy to get away with when you’ve got people like John Winters and Mary H. breathing down your necks. Albanian immigrants, no problem, but JW and Mary, you know yourself Enzo. Now Oprah’s joining in as well!
    No surprise the bra clasp went AWOL for 47 days or the DNA on the knife was tested out of existence because Steffanoni had to magic it into existence in the first place in the lab. Yuk I say.

    As for the footprints, Guede’s footprints are vital because they were found in the murder room suggesting (to some of us at least), that Guede must have dunnit. Duh. Amanda’s footprints populate the flat she lived in. Had they been found in Kercher’s locked room, then yes, we would have to concede that that was highly suspicious. But in the hall, the bathroom of the flat where she lived. What does that prove? It proves you have one mighty SNAFU on your hands if you think it proves anything because your reasoning is averse to the way like everybody else in the world reasons! That’s what I say.

  • Where oh where?

    grim said: I just bet that there is more evidence to come out at the end of March that hasn’t been used for public consumption. Happy hunting for more obscure last straws people.”

    Yes, maybe the prosecution will actually produce all the testing on the LCN DNA knife, or they will have identified the 2 or 3 other people’s DNA on the bra clasp, or they will produce the tapes of the interrogation of Amanda and Raffaele, or we will actually hear what happened to the 3 bloody towels found in Meredith’s room, or maybe the info on the 3 fried computers will be restored, or we will find that they really did do control tests on the DNA in the shared bathroom of Amanda and Meredith to see if Amanda’s DNA was also all over the bidet or the basin, or they will have tested the possible seaman stain on the pillowcase, or actually scoped the pillowcase found under Meredith to see all the bloody outbreak 1 prints, or they will produce the tests they preformed on the luminol footprints that show no blood, or they will show tests comparing the other 2 roommates footprints with the ones found in the hall, or they will actually test or show tests already performed on the blood and black hair found on the broken window in Filomena’s room, or they will produce photos of the broken glass “on top” the cloths in Filomena’s room, or or or

  • grim

    Consider all the evidence. I mean all of it, Not just what you want to believe or what the stars tell you. or wishful thinking or hoping for some kind of miracle. Either Knox is guilty or the entire Italian Judiciary is on some kind of conspiracy against her and Solecito. So people what’s it to be? Consider all of the evidence and then if you can still pronounce her innocent fine. Just a last thought though. I just bet that there is more evidence to come out at the end of March that hasn’t been used for public consumption. Happy hunting for more obscure last straws people.

  • Mary H.

    “Then there is the italian judicial system…..The notion that the US judiciary is somehow better than italy’s, when clearly it isn’t, angers me no end.”

    The notion that the US judiciary is somehow better than Italy’s is not implicit in complaints about Italy’s. It does not follow that because I criticize what happened in Perugia, I must think it couldn’t happen in the US.

    “the idea that italy can be bullied, persuaded, intimidated or threatened into submission is just the height of arrogance.”

    It’s not just Italy, it’s any country. If they have committed an egregious enough wrong, and enough people from the rest of the world protest, eventually they will be persuaded. It happens all the time.

    “Can you imagine the reaction from the US, if an italian senator dared speak out against the treatment over Carlo Parlanti as Cantwell did? Or an italian judge demanding that Parlanti’s trial be transfered to another location? Seriously?”

    I have a feeling that if I were to spend some time on translations of the link, “Appeals for Carlo on http://www.carloparlanti.com/index.htm, I would find some similar objections. One article says, “His story is so well known that even a group of European parliamentarians have decided to take part to clear his name and demand his freedom.”

    From what I see on Google, Parlanti has a lot of supporters. Have they taken his story to Oprah yet?

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “If I didn’t know better, I would say you are trying to get me to change my mind.”

    There you go again; where and when did I say that?

    But for the sake of clarity, let’s give this one last shot:

    You ‘believe’ that Knox, and I assume Sollecito, are innocent. OK, I say.

    In your fervour to prove your point, you draw on and rely upon information which you selectively ‘dis-credit’; eg, DNA tests are ok for Guede but not for K/S. OK, I say.

    there is considerable circumstantial evidence that burdenes K/S case; but all rebuttals put forward on her behalf consist that ‘she forgot, can’t remember, was confused, was forced, she was beaten’. Hmmmmm, I say.

    Then there is the italian judicial system. It was an unfair trial, the PM was corrupt, it was anti-american, it’s medeival, the jurirs weren’t sequestrated it’s a farce, too slow. This is where I lose it. This is NOT ok for me.

    The notion that the US judiciary is somehow better than italy’s, when clearly it isn’t, angers me no end.

    the idea that italy can be bullied, persuaded, intimidated or threatened into submission is just the height of arrogance.

    Can you imagine the reaction from the US, if an italian senator dared speak out against the treatment over Carlo Parlanti as Cantwell did? Or an italian judge demanding that Parlanti’s trial be transfered to another location? Seriously?

    So, let me be clear:

    I do NOT want to change your mind – could I ever?
    I do NOT hate Amanda/Raffaele – I do not.

    the rest is but obiter in the context of this blog.

    Lastly, I believe that ultimately, K/S will find the climb to steep and too long; but less so, having had friends like you to support them.

    So don’t go soft on me.

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Yes, Enzo, I’m touched that you have nothing but my sake at heart. You care so deeply, I can tell — it’s in the way you call me a cheat, a bad sport, a whiner, a hypocrite and a coward; in the way you write “the greatest evil is you;” and when you accuse me of resorting to “spin, manipulation and pure distortions.”

    As someone wrote above, “Don’t ever try and sell a point of view, instead, enrol the listener.” Oh, wait — that was you. Well, hey, I’m enrolled — who wouldn’t be, by a point of view like yours?

    Do go on, Master. I wait quietly at your feet for more of your wisdom and unconditional love.

    Have you noticed, Enzo, that you are very big on trying to “get through” to people, trying to convince them their strategies won’t work, and that they need to grow up? If I didn’t know better, I would say you are trying to get me to change my mind.

    But that can’t be, because you’re the one who said, “Really, you need to allow people their point of view.”

    I always think that if you weren’t so desperate and hyperactive all the time, you might actually be a person worth conversing with. So, let’s try it again — give me an example of something I’ve spun, manipulated or distorted, and let’s discuss it.

    Nah — just kidding. I know you aren’t capable of that.

    Do you want to know what bothers me most of all, though? It’s the way you disrespect three-year-olds. There is hardly anything in this world more honest, open, loving, creative and original than a three-year-old. Yet you manage to make it sound like a dirty word.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “I choose NOT.”

    Ohhhhh !

    Warne, you sound like Bush: ” …you’re either with us or against us.”

    Anyone that dis-agrees with you is branded ‘ANTI-Amanda’.

    You need to grow up. Really, you need to allow people their point of view, free of being branded an amanda-hater. That’s what grown ups do. 3-year olds just cry, wet their nappies and dribble [not drivel] snot when thy don’t get their way.

    I have very close friends who have doubts about GTI’s innocence. They state their views, I state mine and we both enjoy a nice merlot over it. I DO NOT accuse them of being ANTI-friend, Mary.

    In FACT, by listening to your critics with an open ear, you get to hear ‘what’s missing’ in your arguement. Your critics, are in fact, a benchmark to measure the strength or otherwise of your appeal.

    Don’t you get that?

    Snap out of it, girl. Oprah ‘ain’t’ the answer. Larry King wan’t the answer; Geraldo wasn’t the answer; 20/20 was an embarrassmet; the NYT has re-positioned; where oh where is Maria Cantwell? Judge Heavy?

    Where Mary? — apart from in your fanciful mind?

    I say this; it will backfire. Why?

    The interest it will generate will ultimately lead people to the truth. And the truth is NOT what you say it is.

    Sweetie, check out Perugia Shock. This is PRO amanda. the current poll is someting like 45/55% guilty/innocent. And this is a PRO-AMANDA web-site.

    I know that I have a far, far easier case than yours. I don’t envy having to defend K/S. I understand that you have to resort to spin, manipulation and pure distortions.

    But when will it end? For your sake …

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Al wrote: “I’ve seen grown doctors and health care administrators in tears after some good old American grilling by the American equivalent of Mignini (except they were investigators from the USDOJ, OIG or FBI, instead of prosecutors)….Amanda encountered in Italy nothing different from what she would have encountered at home under the same circumstances.”

  • Mary H.

    Today Enzo wrote: “Mary, I tell what the difference is beween my friend, Carlo Parlanti & Knox.

    My friend and carlo are INNOCENT.”

    Nine days ago, Enzo wrote:

    “Well, I don’t want to disappoint you so I WILL try; I A_M N_O_T A_N_T_I_Amanda!

    I have openly, sincerely and genuinely disclosed my position, thoughts and feelings, but, it’s NOT anti_Amanda….

    You will have to choose to believe me on this – or not.”

    I choose NOT.

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”I started imagining Patrick I don’t know why”

    This is typical of the kind of reaction one expects to coercive tactics which use extreme stress as a catalyst to induce breakdown in a subject. It is in no way representative of a mind in rational deliberation. On the contrary, it exhibits all the classic signs of having been forced to accept that black is white and to then go ahead and treat of real or imagined phenomena as such. By this stage in her interrogation, poor Amanda didn’t know where she was, why she was there, or what she was thinking in her own mind. That pile of neanderthal ”rationale” was being supplied by Ficarra and her violent, bullying cronies.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    I’ve no idea how good Mignini is as a prosecutor, or if he’s been successful in past prosecutions or not. I also have no idea what his style is. If you listen to Preston, he thinks Mignini is a pitbull.

    Unlike the US, where the police can interrogate a suspect, in Italy once you’re declared a suspect, the interrogation must occur at the presence of a magistrate, a prosecutor. The police can only interrogate and gather depositions from witnesses without the presence of a magistrate. Italian prosecutors are the ones who conduct the interrogatories of suspects, and therefore they receive intensive training on interrogation techniques.

    Interrogations by law enforcement are never fun, and don’t think it’s any different in America. And I have personal experience on that, since I used to work along with Federal Law Enforcement agencies on various fraud investigations as a health insurance fraud examiner for the Medicare program. If you think that investigators in America treat you with white gloves and gourmet pastries, you obviously have never been in one. I’ve seen grown doctors and health care administrators in tears after some good old American grilling by the American equivalent of Mignini (except they were investigators from the USDOJ, OIG or FBI, instead of prosecutors). Consider yourself happy and hopefully you’ll never be the subject of a law enforcement interrogation in America. Preston, obviously, didn’t get to experience that in America before being charged with “rendering false statements to a prosecutor” by Mignini in that famous encounter he had.

    Amanda encountered in Italy nothing different from what she would have encountered at home under the same circumstances. If you find yourself in those situations, you’d better have straight and consistent answers, because no investigator in America will tolerate the bullshit stories those two “innocent” kids told the Italian investigators: the “I don’t remember where I was”, the “I had a vision”, the “I started imagining Patrick I don’t know why”, the “I don’t remember if she was with me or if she wasn’t, and if she was I don’t remember if she left and came back, and maybe we had sex maybe we didn’t”, “the I don’t remember if I talked to my father and when”.

    Find yourself grilled by the FBI once, only once, and then talk to me again about Mignini’s prosecutorial style. You clearly have a distorted notion of how things work in the real world of law enforcement. Well, I’ve had that experience of working with law enforcement (or in Italy, in law enforcement) in two countries and I’m glad for you that you never got in trouble before in America. I suggest that you continue to do so, because you might find the experience of dealing with the real world law enforcement very disappointing to your idealized (and naive) version of law enforcement tactics in America.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @where oh where:

    “One more thing, Al, in all your defense of mignini I’ve never heard you mention any of his past trials and how he prosecuted them. About how great he was and how he put away this bad guy or that bad guy.

    I am really curious about them.”

    Where oh where: stay FOCUSED !

    “U.S. Justice system — a separate entity.
    Italian Justice system — a separate entity.
    Amanda’s case — a separate entity.
    Whatever case you’re going on about — a separate entity.”

    “Why do you guys continually change the subject?”

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “Why do you guys continually change the subject?”

    Mainly, to accomodate your spin on everything you propell at us in order to block all that you don’t like, agree or face about the Knox case.

    I have a nickname for you: ‘Warne’ [pronounced war - knee]. It’s a compliment to you. One of Oz’s best ‘spin’ bowlers. He can make a cricket ball spin so much that it deflects 180 degrees off it’s intended course. Sound like you, Mary?

    Life is full of ironies isn’t it? Here we have a group of WASPs turning to, wait for it, Oprah, as her saviour in getting Knox out.

    Al, maybe we should approach David Letterman regarding Carlo?

    What is the strategy Mary? The Knox’s appear on Oprah balling their eyes off and the next day, what?, Knox is released because the wave of public sentiment is SO overwhelming that like a psychic force in enters the alphawaves of the judges and they in their wisdom alter their judgement and whoopie, Knox is released ?

    Or, are you going to slip a greasy $5 under the table to italian judges?

    “This is where Al and the other Italians will all jump in, shouting, “There is nothing the judges can do!!! They have to follow the law!!!”

    But I bet they would be willing to make an exception just this once.”

    Yes, darling, I’m absolutely sure they will be willing; hey, what’s a slit throat or two amongst friends? [The smiley face was a nice touch]

    Mary, I tell what the difference is beween my friend, Carlo Parlanti & Knox.

    My friend and carlo are INNOCENT.

    Please, can you work the rest out for yourself?

    At some time soon we really need to take the trainer-wheels off.

    dixi

  • Where oh where?

    One more thing, Al, in all your defense of mignini I’ve never heard you mention any of his past trials and how he prosecuted them. About how great he was and how he put away this bad guy or that bad guy.

    I am really curious about them.

  • Where oh where?

    You know Al, I speak of one thing and you talk of another, just like always. And resort to name calling. We all know your MO. Where oh where are the all caps, though? I guess you’re not as mad at me as you can get with John, Mary, Billy or Shane.

    By the way, you can’t rewrite the story to fit some obscure scenario to make what is happening to Amanda and Raffaele right.

    No matter what you say, a great wrong has been committed against these two innocent people. Until it’s righted, and I hope it will be soon, I’ll be posting and doing other things, like donating to Amanda’s defense fund. Spew your hate all you want but I won’t be quiet.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Whore ho Whore:
    “High profile cases in the US are treated with kid gloves nowadays. There isn’t the so called “rush to judgement” nor actual arrests made until a least some of the forensic evidence comes back as positive for a suspect, or, more likely, a “person of interest”.”

    You clearly live in a dream world.

    Tell that to any black person in America. We’ll see if they agree with you.

    You are obviously a stupid spoiled white upper middle class kid who never ventured outside his upscale neighborhood, or college campus (although I doubt you have an education), and who never reads newspapers or watches intelligent TV. You probably get your news from MTV or Comedy Central.

    It is true that Amanda’s case may not have reached the trial stage in America, but that’s only because she’s white and upper middle class, killed a biracial foreigner, and there is a black guy ready to be blamed nearby.

    If however, with the exact same dynamics and evidence, Amanda had been a black student, the victim had been a white rich American, and Rudy Guede had not been black, Amanda would have been already fried on the electric chair by now.

    Sorry guy if there are countries in the world where rich white people don’t get away with murder so easily. If you expect the rest of the world to be as biased as America, I suggest that you limit your travel to Idaho and Montana.

    And you want my prediction? Short of a miracle, or a full exonerating confession by Rudy, Amanda and Raffaele will be found guilty in appeal, maybe with a reduced sentence. They won’t spend more than 8-10 years in jail in total (very few do in Italy, but only dangerous criminals), but they’ll be found guilty nevertheless.

    So get ready to stay on the blogs for a long time (by the way the average appeal trial in Italy lasts 730 days, so don’t rush)

  • Where oh where?

    And Al, blaming us for defending Amanda is ridiculous. I’m really not quite sure what you are trying to “instruct” Mary about. OK, we understand bad things happen and the US has behaved badly sometimes. So has Italy, England, France, Australia, Germany, Japan, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia….

    This really isn’t a contest on who behaved the worst and when. Injustice is just that, injustice. And, as I’m sure your mum told you, 2 wrongs don’t make a right and neither does 3, 4 or 5.

    I see a huge injustice being done in Perugia, Italy and I for one will never keep quiet about it.

  • Where oh where?

    Al said; “Amanda has a much better chance of being found not guilty on appeal in Italy than in the US. The chances for a conviction to be reversed in an American Appeal court are almost nil. In Italy the majority of appeals result in reduced sentences and almost 20% are fully reversed.

    If you live in a glass house…….”

    Al, buddy, Amanda would never have even gone to trial here in the US so she would not need an appeal.

    High profile cases in the US are treated with kid gloves nowadays. There isn’t the so called “rush to judgement” nor actual arrests made until a least some of the forensic evidence comes back as positive for a suspect, or, more likely, a “person of interest”.

    A beautiful college girl who is also a foreign student being raped and having her neck slashed in her own bedroom would certainly qualify as a potentially high profile case. The police might suspect one of her roommates who is also a beautiful foreign student had committed the crime but it’s highly unlikely they would arrest that roommate without a lot more forensic evidence and in as little as 4 days. The police might detain the suspected foreign student because of flight risk, but they would just call the student a “person of interest”.

    US police and prosecutors have been burned way too many times to fall into the trap that the Perugia police and prosecutor have fallen into. Even if the police are sure that a certain suspect did the crime, they wait until they have a good deal of evidence in hand before making an arrest. And they never, never in recent times would announce “case closed” because the lead detective said he didn’t need any evidence, that he could just tell if a person was guilty by seeing and listening to them.

  • Mary H.

    While bouncing off the walls, Enzo wrote: “I’ll take the italian system over yours ANYDAY. This was my point.”

    That’s fine. I am not sure I wrote anything to elicit a discussion about that, but your point is taken.

    By the way, the American justice system is mine as much as the Australian mass media are yours. I have as much to do with Carlo Parlanti as you have to do with the public trashing of your friend.

    Why do you guys continually change the subject?

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    You may think that Amanda is innocent or guilty, but the fact is that the Italian system grants so many guarantees to a convicted defendant that American defendants can only dream of.

    Some of you say that if Amanda were in America she wouldn’t have been found guilty. Maybe! Primarily because she’s white and upper middle class. However the example of Carlo Parlanti and the hundreds of convicted inmates recently released after decades spent in prison (for the most part ethnic minorities) clearlyd demonstrates that the American system is inherently much much more unjust than the Italian one.

    Amanda has a much better chance of being found not guilty on appeal in Italy than in the US. The chances for a conviction to be reversed in an American Appeal court are almost nil. In Italy the majority of appeals result in reduced sentences and almost 20% are fully reversed.

    If you live in a glass house…….

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Johnny Winters:

    ”Manchester? Isn’t that the guy commissioned to write Richard Nixon’s biography?”

    Yes, Johhhnnnyyy, whatever you say. You’re as funny as a fart in a space-suite.

    Though, it wouldn’t surprise me that he moonlights as a taxi driver ad practices medicine during the day. It’s the US the land of ‘opportunity” right?

    Oh those halcyon days indeed .

    ok now, back to Mary H for further instructions ..

    dixi

  • John Winters

    Enzo Zoff says:

    ”You are not going to get the full and complete diaries that we talked about, and you are not going to get any of the medical reports that Dr. Manchester talked about.”

    Manchester? Isn’t that the guy commissioned to write Richard Nixon’s biography? ”What’s that funny noise on the line ma?”

    ”And get this. The president says if it doesn’t work, it’s your ass.” etc. Oh those halcyon days….

    They’re back in Italy!!

  • John Winters

    Billy

    The relevant Examiner article (though once you’ve seen it, you’ll understand it is actually now full of Rag’s irrelevancies), is at:

    http ://www.examiner.com/x-32288-Spokane-Elections-2010-Examiner~y2010m2d3-Why-does-Mignini-continue-a-carousel-of-defamation-suits

    Please remove the gap between ‘http’ and ‘://’ to get this link.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “Your point seems to be that as long a there is other evil in the world, no one should discuss the evil inherent in Amanda’s case, is that it?”

    No. That is not my point. It’s your spin, as usual !

    All your replies and retorts are couched in convenient throw-away one liners – communicating with you is similar to that of a 3 year old. MAry H, I’m running out of basic, simple language as a means of reaching you .

    I would appreciate a little effort on your part, otherwise, I don’t know that you’re going to make it through this …

    You say there is evil in Knox’s case?

    The evil is in withholding evidence to jurors;
    to openly declare that time does not permit a careful analysis of all the evidence ; which has been withheld;
    to have NO, NIL, ZILCH evidence supporting a rape;
    to have the victim change her story – sound familiar?;
    to have police admit that thee was NO physical evidence of a beating;
    to be convicted by 12 dipsticks your own average IQ without ever knowing the reasons behind their verdict;
    not have the right of appeal; let alone a second one to the supreme court;
    to be incarcerated in a prison built for 2000 but housing 7000 + inmates.

    BUT,

    the greatest evil is you. The great pretender, the defender of truth and injustice, but only when it concerns Knox, every other case is dismissed as an unfortunate incident in history.

    Mt Cermis ? … hmmm. that’s just too bad;
    Guentanamo Bay ? … that’s military;
    Carlo Parlanti? … not my problem ….

    But you will whinge and whine like an out of tune violin, worse still, like fingernails scratching against a blackboard about the inadequacies of the italian judiciary.

    Sweetheart, I’ll take the italian system over yours ANYDAY. This was my point.

    I can’t wait to see the Knox’s answer the question: ‘So how do you propose to get your daughter out?”

    “If you want me to take responsibility for the Carlo Parlanti case, should I also take responsibility for famine, poverty, starvation and torture the world over?”

    Sweet Jesus, does your arrogance have no bounds? You’re still in nappies, barely to wipe your nose and you talk to me about famine and poverty? You know as much about this as all the crap you go on about.

    Mary H: look in the mirror. See those tampons in your ears? Take the out, open your mouth wide and slowly insert.

    That’s my girl.

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Enzo, you forgot to take your Ritalin again. One thing at a time, honey — FOCUS!!

    U.S. Justice system — a separate entity.
    Italian Justice system — a separate entity.
    Amanda’s case — a separate entity.
    Whatever case you’re going on about — a separate entity.

    To talk about any one of these entities is not to say anything about any of the others. The fact that each of these entities has its own problems has no bearing on any of the others.

    Your point seems to be that as long a there is other evil in the world, no one should discuss the evil inherent in Amanda’s case, is that it?

    If you want me to take responsibility for the Carlo Parlanti case, should I also take responsibility for famine, poverty, starvation and torture the world over?

    Sounds like Parlanti needs some of the kind of support Amanda and your friend in Australia has.

  • Mary H.

    billy, in response to your question about Oprah — to say Oprah is extremely popular is an understatement. I myself hardly ever watch her because I don’t like the way she interrupts her guests, but in general, when Oprah speaks, people in the U.S. listen. When a book makes it to Oprah’s book list, it becomes an instant best-seller. She is probably responsible for getting Barack Obama elected. She could probably get herself elected to the presidency if she wanted to. She is the richest woman in show business.

    If there is anyone in the United States who hasn’t been following Amanda’s case, by this Tuesday they will know about it. I can’t predict how it will be presented, but since Amanda’s parents and not the prosecutors are the guests, I assume it will be supportive of Amanda.

    I’m sure the idea is that once Americans are talking about it, they will pressure their representatives, who will pressure the State Department and hopefully they will take it from there. On the other hand, Mignini can just wait around to become, as you have suggested in the past, the most hated villain in the world via the tabloids, and perhaps that will do some good.

    This is where Al and the other Italians will all jump in, shouting, “There is nothing the judges can do!!! They have to follow the law!!!”

    But I bet they would be willing to make an exception just this once. :)

    Incidentally, everyone who is a member of the Facebook Cause to free Amanda and Raffaele was asked to e-mail the Oprah show to urge them to put Amanda’s story on the air. Look what happened!

    P.S. The link to the examiner article John was taling about is http://www.examiner.com/x-32288-Spokane-Elections-2010-Examiner~y2010m2d3-Why-does-Mignini-continue-a-carousel-of-defamation-suits

    Unfortunately, the examiner’s page-turning function doesn’t work, so once a comment gets pushed down to the last page, you can never read it again.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “It is not accurate to say the U.S. didn’t care about that incident.”

    Well, that makes it all OK; and life goes on ?

    I have just read the Carlo Parlanti case. It pales into insignificance ALL the crap you, John Winters and all your other FOA puppets have gone on about.

    You are the first to whinge and whine about Knox and yet at your door-stop all that is vile and disgusting about injustice thrives in full living color.

    My God, you’re hypocrites; and of the worst kind – cowards.

    Did you read my post above? that’s a copy from the transcripts of Mignini’s equivalent.

    Read it carefully.

    “You are not going to get the police reports. There are legal reasons why this evidence is not going to come before you,”

    Well, what are they?

    But this is a gem:

    “and you are not to speculate as to why or why not you are getting them.”

    That’s right, don’t ask questions – you in the US and as jurors you’re all dipsticks!

    Jesus, you have the gaul, the audacity, the arrogance to pass judgement on the italian judicial system?

    A man in jail for 6 years on NO EVIDENCE; and not like the ‘NO’ you use, but NIL.

    And whatever there might of been has been withheld ???

    Mary H, whoever the hell you are, you are about to experience my wrath.

    Just tune in baby !!!

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    As usual, billy is right on in his observations. The “confession” is one of the most, if not THE most crucial aspect of the whole case.

    The Amanda-haters always start out their attacks with “she admitted to being there” and “she accused an innocent man,” never stopping to think that if Amanda hadn’t been interrogated in the first place, alone, in the middle of the night, against her will, in a foreign country and — most important — WITHOUT CAUSE, the “confession” would never have taken place. If the prosecution had to create evidence, by way of the interrogation, in order to make Amanda a suspect, they didn’t have much of a case to start out with, now, did they?

    The second absurd aspect of the confession is that the Amanda-haters always insist that Amanda was lying when she accused Patrick but she was telling the truth when she said she was at the cottage. In other words, half of her “confession” was false and half of it was true, and the anti-Amanda-ites are the ones that get to say which part is which. How convenient for them. I prefer to say the whole thing was false, but then, I prefer to be logical in general.

    The third, most despicable aspect of the “confession” is what happened after Amanda had been convinced by the police to buy into their version of events and she then offered them her written “gift,” with the full intent of being more helpful and more clear. What do they do with it? Use it against her, and that is that. Betrayal, betrayal, betrayal. As billy has pointed out in the past, they were the brave men who made the little girl cry.

  • Mary H.

    I agree the Cavalese cable car disaster was a terrible tragedy that was mishandled by the American military justice system. The pilot and the navigator eventually were quietly court-martialed, although not for manslaughter or negligent homicide. The victims’ families have not been fairly compensated for their loss.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster

    It is not accurate to say the U.S. didn’t care about that incident. At any given time, a large portion of the American people disagree with their politicians, their police or their military, and they make their views known.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Al:

    “There’s a jury instruction that reads that neither party is required to call all the evidence we possibly can in a trial.

    That would extend trials weeks and weeks and weeks, if possible. So, you have a duty not to speculate on what else may be out there.

    You make your decision on what you have before you.”

    You see, Al, italians have no idea of economies of scale in their justice systems. That’s why there’s such a back-log …

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Al-Fakh Yugoudh:

    … and it just gets better:

    “What that means is you must base your decision on the evidence that you have before you. You cannot consider what may or may not be out there. You have to base your decision on the evidence that was presented before you.”

    Which we have seen from above is zero !!

    I just LOVE this one-liner:

    ” That’s the way it works in “OUR” criminal system.”

    Capiscisti ???

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    Al-Fakh Yugoudh:

    you got me interested in the Carlo Parlanti case.

    So I looked into it.

    This is the 2nd paragraph of the Prosecution’s closing argument:

    “So, the first thing I would like to start off with
    to let you know is that there are some things that you, as
    jurors, are not going to get as evidence, and I want to bring
    that to the forefront right now so you don’t ask about them
    during your deliberations. You are not going to get the
    police reports. There are legal reasons why this evidence is
    not going to come before you, and you are not to speculate as
    to why or why not you are getting them. You are not going to
    get any transcripts that were referenced to. You are not
    going to get the full and complete diaries that we talked
    about, and you are not going to get any of the medical reports
    that Dr. Manchester talked about.”

    So what the f**k did they get?

    Now, this is REAL justice !

    dixi

  • billyryan

    on the night of 6 november 2007 the italian police realised that edda mella was on her way to perugia amanda would soon have a lawyer and edda would take amanda and leave italy.
    they were taping all of raffaela and amandas phonecalls they were taping any private conversation they were having.it really does not matter whether they decided to rurn off the recordings or they got rid of them afterwards.But the interrogation suddenly became very agressive,the detective from rome in the next room stated in evidence he heard her screaming,suddenly as the police admitted themselves there was twenty three in the room with amanda telling her she would face thirty years in jail never see her family again raffaela was telling them a completly different story to what she was telling them .the two slaps at the back of the head was very minor to the syclogical presure these professionals put a now terrified young girl under.
    the modern thinking on torture is that the tortured person will always tell in the end what you want them to tell you,but that it cannot be relied upon,but by god have the amanda haters used it against amanda by again and again repeating she tryied to frame an innocent man making her face another false charge,while totally ignoring completely the fact that the way this confession was obtained has to be hidden from the outside world
    those of you that have being reading this blog realise it is not often al_fakh_yugoudh and i agree but as a neutral i believe the pilot who hit a cable and killed twenty people should have faced an italian court.mario lozano i do not know enough about to comment,the cia agents kidnapping a man off the italian streets and taking him out of the country was a grave insult to italian soverignty,the carlo parlanti case the USA justice system in a spirit of good will should be willing to address all italian concerns in this case
    ten days to the release of the document that will explain the unexplainable, how amanda and raffaela brought a knife to amanda cottage used it to commit murder took it back to raffaela apartment,but it was not premediated,how amanda pushed merridiths face so hard against the ground to leave a very severe mark yet left no fingerprints no dna how she stabbed merridith three times in the neck and no blood spray was ever found on any of her clothes.she must have produced and used an up to now unknown body condum.
    again as i am from a neutral country i have no doubt that a completly innocent amanda knox is paying a price for the american pilot the cia men.maria losano carlo parlanti and this is incrediable unfair
    no one has any knowledge of what the sollecito family are doing on behalf of their innocent son.one thing is certain they are not doing nothing,i am sure the irony of his life being destroyed to settle a score with americans is not lost on them.mary H i would like to hear your opinnion of how the oprah show will gallavanise support for amanda in the USA.i repeat the world will be a better place when amanda and raffaela are released
    john winters can you give me a link to the examiner blog

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Only 10 days to the release of the document that will show everybody that AMANDA IS GUILTY OF MURDER WITHOUT ANY REASONABLE DOUBT.

    Enjoy your dreams while you can. Once the US media learns the details you’ll have a hard time manipulating the American public.

    The SPIN IS OVER.

    AMANDA GOES TO THE BIG HOUSE FOR GOOOOD!

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Sure Mary Ho. Italian judges don’t have enough work, that’s why they need to have this case prolonged. Maybe you should read about the heavy backlog in the Italian justice system. Ooops! I forgot. It requires reading and work. Much easier to come up with some bullshit comment like you usually do.

    You may not know this but nobody gives a fahq about this case in Italy anymore. The notion that everybody is paying attention to what America might say or react is only in your small brainless mind.

    The US didn’t give a fahq about what Italians thought when they acqutted the USAF pilot who killed 20 European skiers while playing top gun against all flight regulations! The US didn’t give a fahq about the Italian extradition request of Mario Lozano when he killed an Italian intelligence official in Baghdad. The US didn’t give a fahq about Italian requests and complaints about their rendition program which got 26 CIA agents convicted in absentia. And California judges (and the US gov’t) are not giving a fahq about Italians’ criticism of their handling of the Carlo Parlanti’s case, a case of clear miscarriage of justice.

    What makes you think that the Italian judges and the Italian Government will give a fahq about a small bunch of whining losers in a rainy foreign city 6000 miles away?? Keep dreaming!

  • Mary H.

    Al, the only thing the judges were thinking about on December 5th was how they were going to milk that trial into another one and then another one, in order to keep those paychecks coming in. I can imagine their reaction when when they found out the rest of the world didn’t approve: “Huh? Wha-? What did we do? We didn’t even know anybody was paying attention — ‘cuz we certainly weren’t, uh-hyilk!”

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”Oh my God how scared we are!!”

    Al, that is just childish.

    (Mind you, poor Al is writing on the same side as Harry Rag and the new boy Helder Licht who are writing the most infantile drivel over on the Examiner blog mentioned above, so maybe we shouldn’t be too hard on him).

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    “the judges are NOT going to have the last word in this case….it will be pressure from across the sea that is guiding their decision.”

    You’re obviously a hopeless dreamer who has no knowledge of how things work in a state of law. Keep dreaming baby. You saw already last Dec. 5 how they got “pressured” from across the pond!! Hahahahaha! AMANDA KNOX: GUILTY! Hahahahaha! Oh my God how scared we are!! Hahahahahaha! GUILTY! Oh Geez, we are so scared! GUILTY! Oh my God what pressure, I can feel it! Hahahaha!

    “Is Bruno Vespa anything like..”

    Actually he’s probably the most respected journalist and talk show host in Italy. Probably closer to Jim Lehrer.

    His programs didn’t do much for Anna Maria Franzoni of Cogne, in spite of her being a guest at his program so many times. Same with Amanda! you can have her parents on Oprah every week, nothing will change.

  • Jo

    A comedy night and telling jokes about the Italian justice system is: a) hardly going to help Knox’s appeal, and b) extremely disrespectful to the Kercher family.

  • Mary H.

    Hold on to what’s left of the shreds of your dreams, Al, or as billy so hilariously put it, al_suck mignini cock only he wont let me_dogshite (LOL!).

    You can’t seem to get over the fact that the judges are NOT going to have the last word in this case. They might try to make it look as if they have suddenly come to their senses, but it will be pressure from across the sea that is guiding their decision.

    Is Bruno Vespa anything like the Saturday Night Live character Vinnie Vedeci? If so, I can’t imagine why the judges don’t take him seriously.

    And tell me you did NOT just dis Ireland and the Irish…….

  • John Winters

    Mary H. Billy Ryan, WOW, Phanuel B, Shane et al….

    HEEEEEEELP!!!!!

    Harry Rag is posting lies all over the Examiner blog entitled ”Why does Mignini continue a carousel of defamation suits?”

  • billyryan

    al_the jew with an arab name_dogshite its a long time since i saw a sheep,but your last post explains a lot to me about your interest in this case.sheep are very important historically to the arabs and jews,and you a jewish arab traitor.the only way you can get it up now is looking at a photograph of amanda as you shag a sheep

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    HillBillyterate.Ignoryanturd. Last I counted this morning, I still had two testicles, both of which are bigger than your brain. Amanda is not a damsel in distress, she’s a dumbshit murderer on drugs. Nobody gives a fahq in Italy about Amanda’s support in America. Everybody in Italy and around the world knows that Americans think that foreigners’ lives are worth nothing, and that’s why they always take the side of Americans even if they are murderous killers, as long as they don’t kill one of their own. If Meredith had been American and Amanda had been British, there would be plenty of TV programs in America asking for Amanda’s head so that they could fry her on the electric chair. But since it’s the other way around, then Amanda is automatically innocent. When Natalee Holloway, a white American coke head slut like Amanda, went missing in Aruba after drinking and fahqing too much, there were plenty of programs in America where people wanted the head of that Dutch Aruban boy, even though there was no evidence against him. They didn’t even have her body, let alone anything else. If people around the world had to base their decision on the fahqing Oprah, Nancy Grace etc. all Americans would be saints, as long as they kill foreigners or blacks. Well Oprick Winofry can kiss my ass and the ass of all Italians. If Italian judges decide that Amanda is guilty she’s stays in jail to rot a little longer, because Italians don’t give a fahqing $hit about what people think in America. People who watch Oprick Winfry are idiots anyhow.

    So Billyterate.Ignoryant the sheperd, keep dreaming about Amanda. I know you’re a pervert in love with her, but this time you’ll have to settle for your hand and handlotion once again, unless of course one of your sheep is available for some loving. That wouldn’t be a bad idea, I bet it’s kind of cold in Ireland in February and some little wool warmth could do you some good.

  • John Winters

    Well I’m not on Italian TV, consciousness-raising the Italian people to realise their role in deciding Amanda’s fate………

    ….yet.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John Winters:

    “Sort of Foxy Knox IN the box ON the box!!”

    bud, WHAT are you on?

    dixi

  • billyryan

    al_one_stone_dogshite i think it is ovious you only have one testicle,as nobody with a pair could be in such celebration over a damsel in distress,was it self harm or an accident and have you all of the second one.oprah can increase support for amanda in the USA hopefully the days of chivarley are not fully gone in the USA.at what stage did becomming a traiter al_suck mignini cock only he wont let me_dogshite appeal to you.are you the first in line or was your father and mothers two brothers traiters as well

  • John Winters

    Today Oprah, tomorrow, Controcamp!!

    Sort of Foxy Knox IN the box ON the box!!

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billyterate.ignoryant I always suspected you were from Ireland. You’re probably a sheperd, that explains your ignorance.
    Oprah Winfrey is nobody in Italy, nobody knows her. She can have as many programs as she likes, but she’ll be totally irrelevant to the outcome of the trial. Italian judges don’t give a $hit about talk show hosts like Bruno Vespa who held dozens of programs on the Cogne murder and managed to convince the Italian public opinion the woman in that case was innocent. Judges didn’t give a $hit. They convicted her, and rightly so because she was guilty of killing her child (the Cogne murder was a case similar to Casey Anthony). So if Italian judges don’t give a Faqh about the top Italian talk show like Porta a Porta with Bruno Vespa, why should they give a Faqh about talk shows and TV personalities which are totally unknown to the Italian public? You guys are once again dreaming. Has it crossed your mind that this trial is not taking place in America? Obviously not!

  • Enzo Zoff

    @billyryan:

    “before this is all over …… ”

    guys, you’ve got at least 26 years… don’t rush.

    dixi

  • billyryan

    wonderful news mary H before this is all over mary me and you must somehow exchange emails you are the kind of princeabled person i like to talk to,i think you are from washington i am from an EEC country,not italy or great britain,i think you will see the oprah show before me.USA the most powerful country in the world i am hoping like you that this is the start of a big push on behalf of this beautiful innocent girl.the world will be a better place once amanda and raffaela are walking free again

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “It’s all over, boys!”

    Don’t be so pessimistic … K/S still have 2 appeals left.

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Woo-hoo! As you’ve probably heard by now, Oprah is finally doing a show on Amanda, next Tuesday. It’s all over, boys!

  • Mary H.

    Before I looked up her picture, I says to myself, I says, “She’s gonna be blond, young and showing a lotta skin.” Hey, do I know my blog friends or what?

  • the chicken and the hen

    @Mrry H:

    “there I am’.

    Please, tell me that you’re “Alena Harbin”. !

    dixi

  • the chicken and the hen

    @John Winters; Al-Fakh Yugoudh; Mary H; where oh where;

    … on a more serious note, what about the rooster?

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    First break I’m able to take today. Man! Working really sucks guys! I wish I had Berlusconi’s money right now.

    No JW, I’m afraid you’ll be disappointed. Iustitia yesterday told me he thinks the motivations won’t be much different from the ones from Micheli’s motivations on Guede’s trial. We’ll see if he’s right. There might be more here, since there were more witnesses and experts testimony.

    Whore ho Whore?: Actually the people closer to Mussolini are not the judges or prosecutors, but the Prime Minister, who thanks to his majority of yes men in Parliament, most of whom are his business employees, friends and asskissers who owe him for one reason or another, is able to avert justice and maintain a huge conflict of interest and information monopoly. He’s indicted on several counts of bribing, tax evasion, fraudolent accounting, but in spite of the judges and prosecutors’ power and independence, he always manages to pass laws to grant him immunity or to shorten the statute of limitations so that the judges can’t get to him. Of course he always says that the judges are after him because they’re a bunch of “liberals” who want to get him because he’s a conservative, but actually he’s just a crook. He didn’t achieve that empire without a little “help” from the politicians he bribed before entering politics when he was an entepreneur. Politicians in the 1980′s even passed laws (clearly for him) virtually giving him the ability to acquire a quasi-monopoly of the media in Italy. How do you think he achieved such big favours without paying bribes? And he actually made his money first not with media, but as a real estate developer and construction magnate. How do you think he got all those permits and government construction contracts to build half of Milan? Through bribes of course. Judges are very independent and not subject to political power and pressure, but the real Mussolini “Light” is not the judges is Silvio. Thank God that he doesn’t have power over the judges and prosecutors, otherwise he would be really a Mussolini. The judiciary is the only power that can keep Emperor Napoleon Berlusconi in check. Certainly the Parliament isn’t. He filled it with a bunch of honchos from his companies who do nothing but kiss his ass and do whatever he tells them to do.

  • Nicole Minetti

    Fly away Peter……

  • Where oh where?

    From what Al says, don’t you think it sounds like Italy traded one big, bad mussolini for a whole bunch of little, bad mini-mussos?

  • John Winters

    Thanks for the info on the Italian top brass by the way.

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”But he doesn’t think there is much to discuss now until the judge report comes out.”

    And what a truly nauseating experience that is promising to be.

    Do you know Fhak, a tiny secret part of me is kind of hoping that that motivations report contains some completely new and genuinely startling, if not gobsmackingly silencing piece of evidence or information hitherto unrevealed that suddenly damns Raffaele and Amanda to their chains for many years to come. Something in that part of my being which remains horrified that they have been incarcerated based on so much flawed and inadequate evidence, would actually be sort of relieved that after all, they are actually in prison for 26 years because e.g. somebody produces a video of them committing the murder in vivid technicolor. (I mean rather than producing a Disney cartoon of two fictional psychopaths bringing the remarkable imagination of another psychopath to life on the screen).

    But that is not going to happen is it? In March, we are going to be treated to the same old stodge we have had to endure for two years now, and again the full horror of Amanda’s and Raffaele’s predicament is going to once again nauseate us in the extreme.

  • Mary H.

    Ooops, I must confess I made a boo-boo! I meant my last comment to be directed at Al-Fookhi as well as Ivstitia, who might as well be the same person, if they’re not already. I just kind of skimmed over all your blather today and didn’t even realize it was written under two different identities. Sorry ’bout that.

    Anyhoo, yes, you may see my Facebook page. Cross reference all the women who live in Seattle with all the women who are in the group Free Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito. There I am!

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Hey Mary Ho.
    I saw Ivstitia this evening at the gym. I don’t think he’s lost interest in the case, but work and business travel is getting in the way for him. But he doesn’t think there is much to discuss now until the judge report comes out. I’m sure if he’s got time he’ll be back debating with you FOAkers as soon as that document comes out. But he’s too serious and can’t appreciate the joy one can have in just FOAking with the FOAkers like you.
    So don’t worry Mary Ho. even if I’m also busy, I’ll keep you company and FOAK with you in these blogs and will debate with you and the rest of the FOAkers until you all finally give up and realize that Amanda is guilty. Then once you’re convinced I’ll take you out on a FOAking date. Hopefully you don’t look like Candidass Dumpsick or even worse like Paul Ciolino. Can you direct me to your Facebook page so I can see how you look first?

  • Mary H.

    Ivstitia’s words say, “No, no, no,” but his fingertips say, “Yes! Yes! Yes!”

    He’s tired of discussing this case. He won’t debate, he won’t argue, he won’t waste his time; we’re all nothing, none of us count, he couldn’t care less about what any of us has to say or about what happens to Amanda …… on and on and on and on ……… for about twelve hours a day ….

    I’d like to see how much time he’d spend on something he thinks is important.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Billyterate.Ignoryant wrote: “i am trying my best to like you but i am failing,in your next post tell us all why you hate amanda,forget the evidence what pleasure does her suffering give you.”

    I don’t even try to like you.

    But I don’t hate Amanda either, and I could care less about her. I’m simply defending the work of the Italian judges against gratuitous attacks from illiterate ignorants like you. Americans wished they had a judiciary which was so meticulous and independent like the Italians.

    Instead you have a system where judges and prosecutors incarcerate lots of innocent people simply because they belong to some ethnic minority (that’s why you can’t comprehend why in Italy they jailed a white girl when there was already a black male that could have been blamed) or simply because they have some political agenda or ambition (US judges and prosecutors are elected or are appointed by politicians) and they want to appear that they’re “tough on crime”. Because we all know that you can’t get elected (or appointed to the bench) in America if you are “soft” on criminals (especially minorities). Therefore “put them all in jail”. Who cares if they’re innocent. They’re black anyway.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John Winters:

    “Forgive my Italian but did you just say ”do you understand, angry pussy cat?””

    Yep, that’s it; you got in in one!

    dixi

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    You’re mixing up government positions. That shows your Americo-centered chauvinism.

    The equivalent of the US Secretary of State (H.Clinton) is called:

    in UK: Secretary of State of Foreign and Commonweath Affairs (or more commonly Foreign Secretary).

    in Italy: Ministro per gli Affari Esteri (or Minister for Foreign Affairs). His name is Franco Frattini.

    Earlier you mentioned the British Home Secretary. That is a totally different cabinet position.
    The British Secretary of State for the Home Department, commonly known as the Home Secretary, is the minister in charge of the Home Office of the UK. The Home Secretary is responsible for internal affairs.

    The Italian equivalent is the Ministro degli Interni (or Minister of the Interior). His name is Roberto Maroni. This Minister is responsible for the Law Enforcement agency such as the Italian State Police (Polizia di Stato). The Italian police is not a department of the city, like in most of the US. It’s a national agency under the control of this minister. In fact the City of Perugia and its Mayor have nothing to do with the police. He has no control over it.

    The Italian Ministro di Grazia e Giustizia (Minister of Justice) controls, but only administratively, the judiciary. His name is Angelo Alfano. But he has only control over budgets, clerical staff etc. (administrative stuff), not over the judges and prosecutors. They are under an self governing independent body called Superior Council of Magistrates. This council is responsible for hiring, firing, disciplining, training, transferring, of judges and prosecutors. The Justice Minister does nothing of that. He can do nothing to them, he has no power over them.

    It’s a strange arrangement compared to other countries, but the Italian constitution wanted to guarantee total independence of judges and prosecutors from the political power (legislative and executive). Thank Mussolini and his abuses of the judiciary for such an arrangement.

    That is why nobody in the Italian government has the power to pressure the judges and prosecutor to do anything. If judges or prosecutors violate some rules only the Superior Council can discipline them or even dismiss them, but not a Minister of Berlusconi’s government (or any Government).

    And there is no way the Superior Council will discipline the judges for doing their job simply because the defendant is a rich snotty spoiled girl or boy. There is a process in place, which provides for 2 appeals, one of which is a full retrial. No other country gives you so many chances in appeal, so don’t complain. But, if after the process is over (i.e. all appeals have been exhausted) you’re found guilty, that’s it. There is no Minister that can change that verdict. You go to jail and serve your sentence.

    Capisci ora?

  • billyryan

    al_sack_of_shit i am trying my best to like you but i am failing,in your next post tell us all why you hate amanda,forget the evidence what pleasure does her suffering give you

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”Capisci, testa di cazzo????”

    Forgive my Italian but did you just say ”do you understand, angry pussy cat?”

    Anyway, you’re quite right, I meant to cite the Italian counterpart of the British Secretary of State here, not Mrs. Clinton. Unfortunately I don’t know who that is or what he’s called.

    Perhaps if I asked you nicely, you could help out dear Al.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    “So come on Hillary, let’s review Amanda’s case!!”

    Italian judges decide cases in Italian courts not Hillary. If they decide to convict, tough luck buddy! Your Hillary and the US Government can’t do S*H*I*T!

    Hillary has ZERO power in Italy. ZERO!

    Mr. Frattini (Italian foreign minister) can do nothing for Carlo Parlanti and Hillary Clinton can do nothing for Amanda Knox.

    Amanda Knox is in the hands of the Italian judges, nobody else’s.

    Capisci, testa di cazzo????

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”Amanda Knox is not a political prisoner. She’s an “enemy combatant” who killed a EU citizen for futile reasons.”

    You can laugh, but cases where miscarriages of justice have been corrected by public pressure and interest groups is not unknown. In the UK, George Davis, who had been convicted and imprisoned for armed robbery in 1974, was released because of a campaign of action and pressure continued by his friends and family on his behalf who insisted he was innocent. They refused to let the case die after his sentencing and brought to the public’s attention that blood test results proving that Davis could not have been present at the crimescene had been suppressed by the prosecution at trial. (Remind you of anything). He was released in 1976 when the case was reviewed by the Home Secretary (the British secretary of state). So come on Hillary, let’s review Amanda’s case!!

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billyterate.ignoryant: go back to school and learn how to write at least.

    And don’t worry about the Italian judges. They don’t need the help from illiterates like you.

    If professional jurists had to listen to crazy people like you, John Winotours, noShame, Mary Ho. and Whore ho Whore? justice would be doomed.

    Thank God you all don’t count for $hit.

  • billyryan

    I am starting to get worried about judge massei he done the easy part for his friend mignini convicted amanda and raffaela of the murder of merridith,sexual violence,transportation of the knife,staging of a breakin,and also for amanda slander of patrick.but not of premediated murder,hence the sentence of 25 and 26 years,the premediated part had to go when the prosecution decided there was no motive.a tricky thing to explain that guilty of transporting the knife but not premediation.i mean they just brought it with them to have something in there hand,maybe you could get away with that in most cases but with the way the world is watching this case the bringing and taking of that knife is bloody awkward.A witness puts amanda at raffaela at 8.40 merridith rings her mum at 8.56 according to him and the prosecution amanda and raffaela were at the cottage before merridith which they could have done by running,amanda was living and shopping in the area for six weeks and working in a local bar the local people by then knew her face,and some of them were undoubtably on the street at nine o clock at night yet none of them i mean the ordinary citizens saw them running to the cottage that night.After the murder according to his infabable judgement they left through the carpark back to raffaela place after stabbing merridith leaving her to bleed to death taking her cellphones to remove any chance of she calling for help but them god damb cameras in the carpark failed to pick them up.another hard thing to explain and not look an idiot.the same judge who convicted gesua rinaldi of having helped the rapist and murderer of her daughter who left her free until all the stages of her appeal went through,as does happen in italy,but this young couple are so dangerous that at no stage can they be allowed out on the street.to convict amanda of murder and transportation of the knife he accepted fully the “lcn” test on the knife.protocal for this test states that by the very minimun it must be done in a lab specially designed for “lcn” testing and that the sample must be big enough for a test by prosecution and defence.the only evidence the court has got for merridith dna on the knife blade is patrizia stefanoni word a close friend of mignini a convicted criminal an evidence fixer.this “lcn”would never or never has been used to convict an italian.mignini has given him another serious problem of getting convicted of abuse of power now the frying of computer hard drives the dissapearence of interview tapes the mildewing of the towels rudy used to clean up merridith are a lot harder for him to ignore.he has to explain how amanda sexually assaulted stabbed merridith yet left no dna in the murder room.all he has got is an “lcn” test which is not allowed in a lot of countries recently banned by the california supreme court,and it is only a matter of time before the european court of human rights get it outlawed within the EEC.the dna evidence he accepted as undeniable proof has been condemed by international experts,he has being buying all the italian daily papers expecting to read dna experts supporting the prosecution dna evidence but the bastards have all sung dumb.time is running out and he has to do something he though at this stage he would be being congratulated on having aprehended murders not being accused of facilitating a miscarriage of justice.the least the prosecution could have done for him is to have provided proof of the purchase and the presence of bleech at the cottage in the drains from the sink,what he would not give for a few bleech receets right now.maybe he is wondering how he got caught up in the hatred of amanda that blinded his judgement,and he is loking at himself in a mirror right now and asking himself what have i done to this beautiful young couple.and just maybe he will shoot himself rather than defend the undefendable,stranger things have happened

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Amanda Knox is not a political prisoner. She’s an “enemy combatant” who killed a EU citizen for futile reasons.

    She will be treated in accordance to Guantanamo standards. The Procura della Repubblica in Perugia (Prosecutor’s office) is retaining Alberto Gonzales for legal advice.

    After a couple of waterboardings we’ll all know the truth, don’t worry! We are winning this war on terror and on terrorist organizations of which Amanda Knox is a principal exponent.

    After we know the exact truth, we’ll be ready to negotiate her release to a third country, provided that Mario Lozano, Carlo Parlanti and Richard Ashby are part of the exchange.

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”Especially if that knowledge could come to the detriment of the “cause”.”

    You’ve chosen your words carefully here as denoted by your use of quotes to frame the significantly selected term ’cause.’ I detect irony here however, suggesting that you expect your readership, of both pro and anti-Amanda hues, to understand that pro-Amanda opinion should in some way be regarded as low-order, rebellious, bolshi.
    In a way you’re right. It has been established by the community who have shared these blogs (in recent weeks especially), that Amanda is not guilty of the murder of Meredith Kercher. Even you have shown signs of coming round to that realisation dear Al-Fhak. For which reason, her case can no longer be regarded as a conventional criminal case as she is obviously continuing to be held for reasons other than guilt for this crime. She should therefore be treated as a political prisoner, and her supporters therefore should regard their work on her behalf as yes, work for a ’cause!’

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Yummi [..] was much respected at first by Candace Dempsey, simply for being Italian and apparently knowing something about the laws”

    Candace knows neither Italian nor law therefore she is not qualified for anything.

    “As time wore on, though, and everyone began to realize…”

    as everyone in Dumpshit blog began to realize that Yummi wasn’t buying their $hit, they decided to dismiss Yummi. Who needs to know the language used in court after all? and above all who needs to know the laws of the country where the trial takes place? Especially if that knowledge could come to the detriment of the “cause”. So let’s rely on ignorance and falsehood to spread the word.

    Fortunately nobody who will serve in the Court of Appeal will ever read the bullshit written by the FOAkers in this blog.

    Sorry folks, but none of you can do anything to change the course of justice in Italy. You are totally POWERLESS INSIGNIFICANT NOTHINGS to the Italian judges.

    Hope Amanda packed enough pajamas. She’s going to sleep over for a few thousand nights longer in Perugia.

  • the chicken and the hen

    the dog is ‘forever’ in the push-up position …

  • Shane

    IVSTITIA wropte: “Aren’t you all tired of discussing this case? At least wait for the sentence motivation. I see from the comments about Yummi that in your opinion people are credible only as long as they are on your side and agree with your views. Once that is not the case, then, you’re done with them. No dissent admitted. That of course tells a lot about you and what your real objective is: SPIN!”

    This is a FAR more typical attitude in the TrueJustice camp. “Such and such is FOA, enough said” is the usual response when anyone mentions a source which isn’t as rabidly anti-Knox as TJMK. In contrast, I’ve found people querying the verdict have usually read all the available sources, even the ones that don’t support their position.

  • John Winters

    Ivstitia says:

    ”If Mignini was so interested in saving face he wouldn’t have asked for the dismissal of the Spezi case.”

    ‘Face’ is a nationalist issue where Amanda’s case is concerned. It cannot be compared to the issue of ‘face’ as it might have affected Mignini’s decision to ask for dismissal in the Spezi case (I think!).
    I mean correct me if I’m wrong.

  • Where oh where?

    Ivs, I’ll quit when you quit.

  • IVSTITIA

    Aren’t you all tired of discussing this case? At least wait for the sentence motivation. I see from the comments about Yummi that in your opinion people are credible only as long as they are on your side and agree with your views. Once that is not the case, then, you’re done with them. No dissent admitted. That of course tells a lot about you and what your real objective is: SPIN!
    Regarding the saving face argument, that is the most ridiculous claim ever made on these blogs. If Mignini was so interested in saving face he wouldn’t have asked for the dismissal of the Spezi case. He was the one who first charged the Florentine journalist, but he was also the one who asked the judge to dismiss the case due to insufficient evidence. Mignini I guess wasn’t so interested in his face in that case! Of course I don’t intend to change your minds. Once somebody has made his/her mind up, there are very little chances for redemption. Who was who said a few comments above about religious beliefs?

  • the chicken and the hen

    we know there’s the chicken and there’s the hen.

    and of course, there’s the rooster.

    if the rooster is doing it with the chicken, who’s doing it with the hen?

    is it still the same rooster?

    if so, he’s really greedy, man.

  • Shane

    Thanks for that, Mary. Yes, I’ve seen his posts quite a lot on TrueJustice; he does seem to have done something of a switch half-way through the case!

  • Mary H.

    Shane — I don’t know how accurate Yummi is/was. He was much respected at first by Candace Dempsey, simply for being Italian and apparently knowing something about the laws. As time wore on, though, and everyone began to realize the evidence was contrived and amounted to nothing, the focus naturally turned to examining how Mignini and the Perugian police had managed to facilitate such a travesty of justice.

    Yummi became more and more resistant to the idea that Mignini and his compadres could have done anything unethical, and he was in complete denial about there even being any potential for Mignini needing to save face or protect his reputation. Yummi went so far as to claim the concept of saving face didn’t even exist in Italian culture, or at least in its judicial system. I didn’t follow the blog that closely toward the end, but it seemed to me Yummi eventually was making a more enemies than friends.

    At some point, he seems to have switched allegiance to truejustice.

  • Shane

    “Shane I don’t care about links to bloggers, whether it’s Harry Rag or Candace Dempsey. Neither one speaks Italian and they interpret whatever they want to interpret.”

    I was more convinced by Yummi in the comments, actually, who is an Italian speaker and who said: “The picture with the 5 prints has never been produced in court. But the picture with Rudy’s alleged print with a glass on it in Filomena’s room was already know and produced by the prosecution (i think is codified as track146)…The print was in the prosecution’s file in Rudy’s trial, it was mentioned on the media, and the picture comes from that file..” In a later comment he corrects the (track/trace?) number: “The most important print seem to be the “trace176″ which is in Filomena’s room, and it is a bloody shoeprint which is covered (probably) by many small broken glasses. (the exact item has not been disclosed, and cannot be seen, but is quoted)”

    I have to admit though, this is new information to me also. Anyone know how accurate Yummi is here? He seems to know about it in some detail.

  • The chicken or the hen?

    There’s the chicken and then there’s the hen …

    Now, the rosster is doing it with the chicken, right?

    So who’s doing it with the hen ?

    Is it still the same rooster who’s doing it with the chicken also into the hen ?

    ‘coz if he is, then that is just too greedy man ..

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    You can’t click on a specific portion of the document.

  • Mary H.

    “It’s simply unreasonable to think that Amanda would have made Lumumba’s name and held on to that for two full weeks…”

    Yes, it is. And she didn’t.

    You think you haven’t been debating? What have you been doing all these weeks?

    And stop wasting space with pages that can be clicked on with a link.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Mary Ho. You’re the last person I’d debate anything with. You just made up your mind and have a religious belief that Amanda is innocent and there is nothing that could convince you otherwise.

    I don’t debate religious matters with believers. And for you this is a religious matter and you are a believer.

    It’s simply unreasonable to think that Amanda would have made Lumumba’s name and held on to that for two full weeks, if not because she had an ulterior motive (i.e. deflect the attention from the real culprits, Rudy, Raffa and herself).

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Shane I don’t care about links to bloggers, whether it’s Harry Rag or Candace Dempsey. Neither one speaks Italian and they interpret whatever they want to interpret.

    I have the entire report which I exported on Word, so that I can search for specific words. I’ve searched for every possible combination and I’ve read that last sentence you have. That is in fact the only sentence closest to what you said earlier, but it doesn’t say it was in the bedroom.

    However, this is not what Micheli says. He’s telling what Sollecito’s defense (and his recount has a critical tone) is trying to explain (basically their theory of the burglary gone wrong).

    Don’t just read a piece here and there. Read it in the context of the whole logical argument that Micheli is trying to express:

    “Secondo la difesa del S., il vetro di quella finestra fu rotto da un sasso scagliato dal terrapieno antistante, sito a circa 3 metri di distanza; all’interno la finestra aveva l’oscurante, ma non era fissato all’anta, e dunque fu scheggiato per effetto del colpo ricevuto dal sasso (infatti ci sono frammenti anche all’esterno, sul davanzale, che confermano il rimbalzo dei vetri sull’oscurante).
    Quanto alla scelta di quell’ingresso un po’ scomodo, ma comunque agevole per una persona atletica, il ladro non pensò di entrare da dietro perché non sapeva come fosse fatto l’edificio sull’altro lato, o comunque ritenne che quella possibilità già facesse al caso suo; a dimostrazione dell’ingresso clandestino, inoltre, si rinvengono due frammenti di vetro all’interno della casa che non sarebbero stati mai repertati, uno dei quali avrebbe anche una foggia simile a un segno caratteristico di molte delle impronte lasciate dalle scarpe “Nike” riferibili al G.. Avrebbe anche senso, in tal modo, la condotta di quest’ultimo nel non tirare lo sciacquone: egli sarebbe entrato dalla finestra, avrebbe cominciato a rovistare per poi andare in bagno, quindi sarebbe rientrata la ragazza e l’uomo in bagno non avrebbe scaricato il water per non rivelare la propria presenza.
    In vero, questo Giudice ritiene che per entrare da quella finestra non ci volesse davvero Spiderman, come sostenuto dal Tribunale per il Riesame volendo liquidare l’ipotesi: ci voleva un uomo fisicamente agile, come certamente il G. era e come senz’altro sono i ladri che visitano gli appartamenti delle persone nottetempo.
    Né bisognava fare la scalata con il sasso in mano, potendolo effettivamente lanciare da quella sorta di parapetto (e non da sotto, come ha voluto obiettare il P.M., con il rischio che ricadesse in testa al lanciatore). Tuttavia, la scelta della finestra in parola palesava un certo azzardo, cui un ladro difficilmente ricorre: stando alle dichiarazioni della R., ella aveva lasciato le imposte praticamente socchiuse, una addirittura vincolata al davanzale per effetto della dilatazione del legno nel corso del tempo; e nulla, non essendoci certamente luce all’interno, avrebbe potuto rivelare all’uomo con il sasso in mano che lo scuro retrostante non fosse agganciato all’anta, con il rischio di scagliare la pietra e vedersela rimbalzare di sotto. Senza dimenticare che l’azzardo più G. consisteva nell’avere scelto proprio la finestra esposta verso la strada e verso i fari delle macchine in transito.
    Ammettendo poi che a quell’ignoto ladro dovesse darsi il nome di R. G., egli risultava – con quella dinamica – un ladro ancor meno probabile: dal suo punto di vista, perché non tentare di rubare innanzi tutto al piano di sotto, dove era più probabile che sapesse di non trovare nessuno perché aveva più confidenza con quei ragazzi ed era a conoscenza del loro provenire da altra regione, quindi forse gli avevano detto (od avrebbe comunque potuto saperlo da loro, chiedendoglielo apposta) che per le feste sarebbero tornati a casa? Come faceva a dare per scontato che al piano di sopra non avrebbe trovato nessuno o nessuno sarebbe tornato durante la sua azione, visto che in quell’appartamento abitavano un’americana e un’inglese, non certo rincasate per il week-end?Andando a vedere in prima battuta di sotto, egli avrebbe anche potuto scovare il più facile accesso al piano di sopra, ammesso che non se ne fosse già reso conto durante le almeno due occasioni (la sera degli apprezzamenti su A. e della dormita in bagno, quindi il giorno dell’ultimo gran premio) in cui era passato a trovare i ragazzi marchigiani.
    Del tutto inconsistente è altresì la tesi secondo cui il G. (ma il rilievo riguarderebbe qualunque ladro più o meno smaliziato) avrebbe dovuto restare in attesa per oltre mezz’ora, facendosi ritrarre a pezzi e bocconi dalle telecamere del parcheggio con il rischio – crescente, con il passare del tempo – che taluno rientrasse; ed ancora, se R. entrò dalla finestra volendo solo rubare, tanto che si mise a rovistare fra le borse della R., per poi andare in bagno e rendersi conto del rientro di M. (lucidamente, non tirando lo sciacquone per non rivelare la sua presenza), perché non scappò via piuttosto che decidere di andarla ad aggredire dalla parte opposta della casa?
    L’osservazione, che peraltro deve confrontarsi con la palese contraddizione dell’assunto difensivo (da un lato si ipotizza il ladro che entra clandestinamente, dall’altro si contesta che vi siano prove di violenza sessuale) comporta che il G. – escluso che incontrò la vittima e la aggredì in un altro ambiente, perché non ci sono segni di colluttazione – sarebbe stato preso da un chissà quale raptus da ammettere fin da subito l’evenienza di uccidere una ragazza alla quale aveva paventato sino a un attimo prima di rubare qualche soldo in un cassetto: egli, infatti, non era uno sconosciuto per M., eppure avrebbe deciso di attraversare tutto l’appartamento proprio per metterle le mani addosso (con l’idea di un atto sessuale consentito che, a quel punto, andrebbe a farsi benedire a passo di galoppo). E se può ammettersi – e la casistica ne conosce parecchi episodi – l’idea di un ladro che coglie l’occasione per violentare la padrona di casa, ciò accade quando il malvivente sappia di non poter essere indicato dall’aggredita alle forze dell’ordine.
    Il G., si ribadisce, dal bagno dove si trovava era vicinissimo alla porta di casa e alla stessa stanza da cui era entrato, quindi poteva andarsene senza essere notato: anche ammettendo che provò a uscire dalla porta ma la trovò chiusa dall’interno (perché bisognava sempre dare la mandata, secondo quanto riferiscono i testimoni) che problema avrebbe avuto un atleta come lui a scappare dalla stessa finestra da cui era entrato ? Considerando la sua statura, lasciandosi dondolare dal davanzale si sarebbe trattato di un facile salto di un paio di metri sull’erba.
    Quanto ai frammenti di vetro, che le successive precisazioni del P.M. (ma già l’orario delle riprese video fermato nel fotogramma, vale a dire le 01:03:12 del 3 novembre) collocano nella cucina e non nella stanza della K., essi appaiono assai meno significativi delle tracce esaltate con il luminol nella stanza della R., da cui si è ricavato DNA della vittima. Un ladro qualunque o una persona che voleva entrare furtivamente in casa, una volta riuscita a farlo da lì – con qualche difficoltà – avrebbe cercato o meno di rubare qualcosa e poi sarebbe andato nelle altre stanze, avrebbe commesso l’omicidio ma poi sarebbe andato via dalla porta, guarda caso trovata aperta la mattina dopo dalla K. (a voler prestar fede alla versione dell’imputata); chi glielo faceva fare di ributtarsi dalla finestra, o di ripassare da quella stanza lasciandovi tutti i beni di valore? Ergo, quel DNA – con tutte le necessarie e future verifiche sulla natura precisa della traccia, data la molteplicità delle sostanze c.d. luminol-positive, oltre al sangue – sta oggi ad attestare con verosimile ragionevolezza che chi entrò in quella stanza lo fece quando M. era già stata colpita, e dunque (da dentro, non da fuori) ruppe il vetro.
    Il tema appena trattato si ricollega, a questo punto, a quello della alterazione della scena del delitto, e soprattutto a quello – ammessa l’eventuale alterazione – dei soggetti che potevano avere interesse a darvi corso.”

  • Shane

    Al Fakh wrote: “WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT”

    I think it’s this bit, although I’m going on Google translate:

    “Quanto alla scelta di quell’ingresso un po’ scomodo, ma comunque agevole per una persona atletica, il ladro non pensò di entrare da dietro perché non sapeva come fosse fatto l’edificio sull’altro lato, o comunque ritenne che quella possibilità già facesse al caso suo; a dimostrazione dell’ingresso clandestino, inoltre, si rinvengono due frammenti di vetro all’interno della casa che non sarebbero stati mai repertati, uno dei quali avrebbe anche una foggia simile a un segno caratteristico di molte delle impronte lasciate dalle scarpe “Nike” riferibili al G.”

    It appears to have been mentioned during Guede’s trial, anyway. Did you read the link?

  • Mary H.

    Hi’l-Fakh Hizzilf wrote: “…then there isn’t much more I’m willing to debate.”

    That’ll be the day.

    “It’s like trying to convince a Christian that Jesus couldn’t have been born from a virgin or trying to convince a muslim that there are new 72 virgins in heaven waiting for suicide bombers. Totally futile.”

    No, it isn’t. Those are articles of faith, while the evidence is supposed to be based on fact. Trying to envision the scenario, as Mignini and the judges did, is speculative, but the evidence can be tested scientifically.

    “Tell me why someone would claim in tears who was in the house and saw Lumumba doing it, and wouldn’t retract this wrong statement for 2 weeks, even though she had a chance to do so to the judges, lawyers, penitentiary police, chaplain etc.”

    Do you know for a fact that she didn’t? No, you don’t.

    The point is immaterial, anyway. Retracting her statement would not have gotten Lumumba out of jail, just as making her statement didn’t get him into jail.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Replace “new” with “no” above (when I talk about the 72 virgins). It was a typo.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Whatever you say guys! If somebody in this blog can even reach the conclusion that it was Rudy who tampered with the crime scene much later during the night, and he did so because he wanted to have sex with the corpse, then there isn’t much more I’m willing to debate. It’s like trying to convince a Christian that Jesus couldn’t have been born from a virgin or trying to convince a muslim that there are new 72 virgins in heaven waiting for suicide bombers. Totally futile.

    I think I’ll leave it to the judges to decide, they certainly have more access to the evidence than anybody else. And, when they decide, I’ll be perfectly happy with whichever decision they make. You on the other hand, will accept only one verdict, and I’m sure in case things don’t go your way, you’ll criticize every word of the sentence motivation. In that respect I much prefer the American system. Guilty or not guilty, and that’s it. No explanation for it in hundreds of pages of judges’ rulings. I wish it would be the same in Italy. Guilty or not guilty, and live with it.

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak

    Ironically, you are using the language which Amanda used in her statements:

    ”Could it be that “maybe” she was trying to put the blame on someone else in the hope she would be let go?”

    These are conjectures, not statements of fact. Amanda was reporting what she imagined COULD have happened, not what she knew actually happened. This is because she didn’t in fact know what actually happened because she wasn’t there!

    Asked about that interview afterwards, she responded:

    ”They wanted a name and I couldn’t give them one.”

    Post-interrogation, Amanda actually was of the opinion that she had not given the police any factual information at all. And I must repeat, anybody with even an elementary understanding of mood in English will understand what she said in this way too.

    The way you discuss these statements doesn’t say much for the competence of the Perugian judicial system you seem so keen to defend. Surely they can come up with a member of staff who understands English at a deep enough level to appreciate the difference between language which is used to express conjecture and possibility, and language which is used to express fact.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Your conjectures are full of “maybe”, “perhaps”, “I bet”, “probably”, and based on nothing except for your obvious intent to put the entire blame on Rudy.

    As usual any evidence against AK and RS is discounted or dismissed.

    Tell me why someone would claim in tears who was in the house and saw Lumumba doing it, and wouldn’t retract this wrong statement for 2 weeks, even though she had a chance to do so to the judges, lawyers, penitentiary police, chaplain etc.

    Could it be that “maybe” she was trying to put the blame on someone else in the hope she would be let go?

    But anyway, Shane. Don’t put links to Candace Dumbass or Frank Sfarzo. Show me actual unbiased documents. Show me where Micheli’s report says what you say.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Shame: “Micheli mentions a Nike shoe print in Filomena’s room, with a piece of glass next to it;”

    WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT:
    “La stanza prende luce da una finestra, ubicata nel terzo medio della parete anteriore prospiciente il viale d’accesso alla casa. La stessa è protetta esternamente da una persiana fiorentina in legno di colore verde, in atto rinvenuta semiaperta e priva di effrazioni. L’anta di destra della persiana, è munita di un congegno di chiusura denominato ‘a spagnoletta’. La finestra è costituita da due imposte in legno bianco, con pA.lli in vetro, apribili verso l’interno, ciascuna munita all’interno di scuro di legno di colore bianco. Lo scuro dell’imposta di destra, è munito di un piccolo chiavistello di chiusura, in atto agganciato alla rispettiva asola a sua volta fissata all’imposta sottostante, e di un secondo congegno di chiusura, denominato ‘a spagnoletta’ munito di un chiavistello più G. del precedente, in atto aperto regolarmente (..). L’imposta di sinistra presenta il vetro infranto nella metà inferiore ed un foro passante di forma irregolare, che misura cm. 53 di lunghezza e cm. 27 di larghezza. Il davanzale interno ed esterno della finestra è cosparso di frammenti di vetro di varie dimensioni, presenti anche all’interno della stanza. Il lato interno dello scuro dell’imposta di sinistra, in corrispondenza del foro praticato nel vetro, presenta un’evidente scalfittura nel legno di forma irregolare, di cm. 2 circa, con sfilacciamento delle fibre legnose ed alcune piccole schegge di vetro ivi conficcate (..). Il davanzale esterno della finestra dista dal terreno sottostante mt. 3,78 (..).
    Sul quadrante anteriore del pavimento, sottostante la finestra, a mt. 0,93 dalla parete destra e mt. 0,66 dalla parete anteriore e mt. 2,31 dalla parete posteriore, è una busta di carta di media G.zza (..), contenente capi di abbigliamento ed un sasso della misura di cm. 20 x cm. 15 x cm. 15 circa; un secondo frammento di pietra, di piccola dimensione, poggia sul pavimento, fuori della busta, accanto al sasso (..)”

  • Where oh where?

    Here is another thought on those towels. They came from the bathroom that Amanda used and it wouldn’t have been unusual for Amanda’s DNA to have been on one or more of them. Don’t you think that the forensic department wouldn’t have jumped immediately to have a look, searching for her DNA? When none was found what use did the towels have? They already had plenty of evidence against rudy so might as well let them mildew.

  • Where oh where?

    Shane said: “I was thinking about the footprint in the bathroom, and given the lack of any similar footprint in the blood in Meredith’s room, I bet it was made by someone (i.e. Rudy) stepping on one of the blood-soaked towels and then hopping into the bathroom to wash his foot. Maybe there was evidence to that effect on the towels, something which would of course make it highly likely Rudy was the one who made it, since he admits fetching the towels from the bathroom and using them to mop up the blood.

    Perhaps the ‘mildewing’ of the towels is another rather convenient destruction of evidence that might have discredited the prosecution’s case against Knox and Sollecito, like the frying of the hard drives.”

    I agree. There was the towel sitting on the bed, a convenient place for rudy to sit and wipe dry his foot. But there is also the fact that rudy cut his hand during the struggle with Meredith, what you want to bet that rudy’s blood is also on these towels?

  • Shane

    Where Oh Where said: “So, where are the towels now? I’ve read that the (in)famous forensic department let the towels mildew. Is this on purpose, or another example of their incompetence?”

    I was thinking about the footprint in the bathroom, and given the lack of any similar footprint in the blood in Meredith’s room, I bet it was made by someone (i.e. Rudy) stepping on one of the blood-soaked towels and then hopping into the bathroom to wash his foot. Maybe there was evidence to that effect on the towels, something which would of course make it highly likely Rudy was the one who made it, since he admits fetching the towels from the bathroom and using them to mop up the blood.

    Perhaps the ‘mildewing’ of the towels is another rather convenient destruction of evidence that might have discredited the prosecution’s case against Knox and Sollecito, like the frying of the hard drives.

  • Shane

    Al Fakh Myselfifnooneelsewill said: “- Amanda’s DNA is mixed with victim’s blood in Filomena’s burglarized bedroom and there is no trace of Rudy’s presence (DNA or fingerprints) in same bedroom or window.”

    I think you may be wrong here too, Al. Micheli mentions a Nike shoe print in Filomena’s room, with a piece of glass next to it; it was presented as evidence in Rudy’s trial. See here for more information: http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/179047.asp

    What was Rudy doing in Filomena’s room, I wonder? We now have evidence that he was in Meredith’s bedroom (DNA, hand print, shoe prints), the bathroom (by his own admission), and Filomena’s room (shoe print). Plus his footprints leading to the front door. In other words, he was in every location connected to the murder.

  • Roberto Dylan

    to John Winters -

    “One day the whole world will know the truth of what took place at 7 Via della Pergola, Perugia, Italy on the evening of Nov. 1st, 2007.”

    ” …. shit happened”

    Amanda Knox

  • John Winters

    If Al-Fhakupyourlanguagebyusingitlikeaprehensile
    can play Harry Rag and continually paste reems of outdated crap on this board, I can reply to Roberto Dylan in similar kind, who said (displaying an indiscreet lack of wit in the process):

    ”Which was, breakfast will be at 8.00 am sharp, he whispered.”

    Written by another American emigre:

    What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow
    Out of this stony rubbish? Son of man,
    You cannot say, or guess, for you know only
    A heap of broken images, where the sun beats,
    And the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief,
    And the dry stone no sound of water. Only
    There is shadow under this red rock,
    (Come in under the shadow of this red rock),
    And I will show you something different from either
    Your shadow at morning striding behind you
    Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
    I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
    Frisch weht der Wind
    Der Heimat zu.
    Mein Irisch Kind,
    Wo weilest du?
    ‘You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    ‘They called me the hyacinth girl.’
    —Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.
    Od’ und leer das Meer.

    One day the whole world will know the truth of what took place at 7 Via della Pergola, Perugia, Italy on the evening of Nov. 1st, 2007. And they had better weep for Amanda Knox in that moment.

  • John Winters

    Now we’re back to square one:

    ”Amanda’s DNA was mixed with: Meredith’s blood on the bidet.”

    Simple!

  • John Winters

    Simple….yeeeah.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Yep Joint Winotours. No need for you to comment.

    That’s exactly what happened.

    Amanda got some blood on her hands during the murder scene staging (or maybe during the murder, if she took active part in it), so she went to the bathroom and washed herself. DNA from her sweat got mixed with the blood that stained the sink.

    Pretty simple, uh?!

  • John Winters

    If you’re wondering whether I forgot to add a comment to what Al-FhakYoughud is quoted as saying in the previous post, don’t.

  • John Winters

    Al-FhakYoughud says:

    ”The fact that there was a mixture of Meredith’s blood with Amanda’s DNA in the sink and in the bidet and on the Qtip container is a rather obvious clue that it was probably Amanda who cleaned her own bloody hands in that bathroom, and not Rudy.”

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billyterate.ignoryan said: “…since there is undeniable proof that the body was moved after the blood dried,rudy knew the house was likely to be empty for the rest of the night only for merridits corpse…”

    Hey Sherlock!

    Why don’t you contact Amanda’s and Raffaele’s lawyers and illustrate to them your defense strategy? Tell them that you believe that the murder scene was tampered with, and the body moved, not by AK and RS, as the prosecution believes, but by Rudy, who, after going dancing for a couple of hours, got the sexual urge to go back to the house and f*ck the corpse.

    I want to see if AK and RS’ lawyers go for that strategy, or if they call an ambulance to take you to the nearest mental institution.

  • billyryan

    al_fakh_illiterate_dogshite you lost all credibility with you post that even if she is innocent she should be kept in jail.since there is undeniable proof that the body was moved after the blood dried,rudy knew the house was likely to be empty for the rest of the night only for merridits corpse.killers reguraly return to the scene of the crime.he had a plan to flee italy the cottage where he had raped and murdered was as good a place as any.the three towels that he had used, and mignini got rid of like the computer hardrives the tapes of the interrogation,it was probally when he came back he used them.
    the next man to prosecute is about to step on the world stage.mignini and camodi should be very worried about him,he might just have a heart and a belief that the innocent should go free and the guilty should be punished

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    And by the way billyterate.ignoryant, there is no chance that Amanda will be left free or even at house arrests while the appeals go on. The house arrest could have been a possibility before the trial, but after being convicted in the first trial, there is no way the judges are going to track back on their previous decision.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billyterate.ignoryant:
    your theory that Guede is a necrophile who raped Meredith’s corpse is so far fetched that it doesn’t even deserve consideration.
    And when did he have the time to rape her corpse if after the scream everybody ran out of there as quickly as possible? Are you trying to tell us that after going dancing at the Domus, he went back to the house in the early hours of the morning and raped the corpse then? You are obviously out of mind and you should get yourself checked by a doctor, preferably a psychiatrist.
    The only scenario that makes sense is the one postulated by the prosecutor. The only doubt I have is whether Amanda actively participated to the group rape or if she just watched from the door threshold while her sick boyfriend and Rudy tried to rape the girl (while she was still alive).
    Your conjectures are so idiotic that will never be considered in court. Those 3 drug addicts are all guilty and if miraculously they get acquitted, then that would be the true travesty of justice.

  • Roberto Dylan

    to john winters -

    “In the hour of darkness and peril and need,
    The people will waken and listen to hear
    The hurrying hoof-beats of that steed,
    And the midnight message of John Winters:

    Which was, breakfast will be at 8.00 am sharp, he whispered.”

  • billyryan

    surely now this case is at a very critical stage.mignini and camodi now have to hand over all details of this case to another prosecuter.in private he will ask them the hard questions.what really is the story of the hard drives,what was the forenzic results on the towels that rudy guede used,probally to clean up merridith so he could rape and sodomise a dead corpse.what state had ye really brought amanda too in her interrogation,that you decided the outside world could not be allowed to see,he will look for the results of the forenzic tests done for traces of bleech on the drain pipes at the cottage,the accusation that was so sucessfully used to keep this young couple in pretrial detension,he will interview the coroner who done the authopsy on merridith body,this man would not be bullied by mignini and might in private have a very interesting story to tell.with migninis use of investigations and defamanation cases against all who are opposed to him,he is now having to run very hard just to stand still.i have no doubt forenzic people in italy and the british company who pioneered lcn testing have been approached to support the prosecution dna evidence,but like the first coroner who did an authopsy on merridith body and mignini sacked when he would not toe the line,these people would not be bullied into stating black is white.the new prosecuter who may be studying this case as i write is soon to see the full brutality of what rudy guede done stabbed merridith in the neck three times carefull not to cut the main artuary so she would die slowly from blood loss,he probally raped her as she was dying.he was friends with the boys downstairs he knew the chances of merridith being home alone.after going dancing he returned to the cottage it was at this stage he probally used the towels to clean merridith so he could rape and sodomise her corpse,there is undeniably evidence merridith was moved after she was dead and the blood had dried,i think the dna on these towels was very telling and had to be got rid of in order for mignini to frame amanda.films will soon be made about this case and mignini is soon to become the most demonised and depised person on the planet.for not only framing a beautiful young couple but in his desire to do this his willingness to help rudy guede who committed the most brutal and depraved and sadistic slaying of a beautifull girl who brough joy into a lot of people lives,to almost get away with it.
    now that some of the emotion has left this case,and the press interest has waned,a new prosecuter is now looking at this case,he will be interviewing the drug addicts and homeless men who came forward a year later to help a flagging prosecution case.he will be horrified at what he sees.i understand mary H and john winters why ye have no faith in the perugia judges and prosecuters,but we have no choice but to give this new man a chance
    i see al_faik_y you are willing to consede that amanda may be innocent of late but you still want her to stay in jail,that is very telling of the kind of person you are

  • Mary H.

    jim wrote: “ivista already saud…”

    Well, then.

  • Roberto Dylan

    to john winters -

    “In the hour of darkness and peril and need,
    The people will waken and listen to hear
    The hurrying hoof-beats of that steed,
    And the midnight message of John Winters,

    Friends, breakfast will be at 8.00 sharp,he whispered”

  • jim

    mary the H listen egghead , ivista already saud that both amanda the butcher and the sick boyfriend disappeared in the their room witnessed by her roomate Filomenali when cops wrer actually in the cottage. they nade phone call to the police in that room as the court has established. u and rest of her supporters are just trying to cover the whtie american girl who is plainly a killer and a very cunning one. she will rot in that hole!go get a life

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Joined Winotours:

    It would really help you a lot if you left the wine in the cellar for a few minutes so that you stop your semantic hair splitting.

    The fact that there was a mixture of Meredith’s blood with Amanda’s DNA in the sink and in the bidet and on the Qtip container is a rather obvious clue that it was probably Amanda who cleaned her own bloody hands in that bathroom, and not Rudy.

    But if you want to continue to split hairs with your semantics go ahead. You can even show me your poetic ability if you want, but it’s not going to get you or Amanda anywhere. And by the way, no knowledge of English is even required to find Amanda guilty in that court.

    See you later William Shitspear.

  • Roberto Dylan

    to john winters -

    “In the hour of darkness and peril and need,
    The people will waken and listen to hear
    The hurrying hoof-beats of that steed,
    And the midnight message of John Winters”

    ” …. breakfast will be at 8.00 sharp”

  • Roberto Dylan

    john winters:

    ” … shit happens!”

    Amanda Knox

  • Roberto Dylan

    John winters -

    “Advertising signs that con you
    Into thinking you’re the one
    That can do what’s never been done
    That can win what’s never been won
    Meantime life outside goes on
    All around you.”

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”When that guilty verdict is read, you are free to point out all the subtle nuances in the English language to those judges.”

    I am not asking the judges to explain their seeming total lack of comprehension about what is revealed when the relative veracity of a platitude, which is in severe danger of evolving into some kind of profound truth due to overuse on these blogs, can be undermined to such an extent that the original statement (e.g. ”Meredith’s blood was: mixed with Amanda’s DNA on the bidet”), proves to demonstrate no tenacious semantic relationships between its elements and the phenomena of the reality which it proposes to describe, simply by the application of a syntactical transforming inversion of its elements.

    I am asking YOU to do it.

    The only problem is, I don’t think you have the faintest idea what I’m talking about, and that is why the mechanicalism of the language used on these blogs is so painfully reminiscent of the heartbreaking experience Amanda and her supporters underwent during the course of that damnable ‘trial.’

    Recently, Edda Mellas has been castigated on these blogs for commenting that she didn’t mention her daughter’s remarks about Patrik’s innocence to police ‘because she didn’t speak Italian.’

    Which is pretty small potatoes when you consider that her daughter is now doing 26 years for the same crime.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Mary Ho:

    I’m very well read. As a matter of fact I can read Micheli’s report without using Google.

    Ask Joined Winotours if he can do that with his nuances.

  • Mary H.

    John Winters wrote: “What is the point of continually listing the prosecution ”evidence” like this? I’m beginning to suspect Al-Fhak and Harry Rag work in the same warehouse together.”

    I completely agree. And just last night Al-Dork was claiming he had nothing to do with truejustice.

    billy wrote: “what are ye hoping for amanda and raffaela being put under house arrest for the duration of the appeal process.surely the judge cannot disreguard migninis conviction for abuse of power and planting of evidence.”

    My hope is they will be put on house arrest (well, my real hope is that they would be freed). One thing I have learned, though, is never to count on the Perrugian judges to do the right thing or the sensible thing.

    where oh where, good discussion of the towels. Can you believe Al-Ijjit didn’t know about them? He must be really well read.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billyryan said
    am February 15 2010 @ 5:15 pm

    amanda will be free yet in 2010 and the men that framed her will have wrecked there own lives

    BILLYTERATE IGNORYANT:
    I think you’re off a few years. By 2010 you’ll be lucky if the appeal trial will have started. And appeal trials in Italy last, on average, a couple of years if not more.

    Although it doesn’t really matter in this case. They can take as much time as they like, since Amanda is going to spend many many more years in prison.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Joined Winotours.
    You can keep on going with your linguistic masturbations as much as you like but the linguistic nuances of your English language will be appreciated even less by the judges in Perugia when they render the guilty verdict to Amanda.

    When that guilty verdict is read, you are free to point out all the subtle nuances in the English language to those judges. But make sure you learn Italian first though, because you might have to explain those nuances to them in that language.
    There is in fact a very high chance those judges don’t understand even a word of English, let alone your useless nuances.

    I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but that trial takes place in a country where they speak a language other than English. Therefore I can tell you in the language of THAT country where you can put your linguistic nuances:

    IN CULO!!!

  • billyryan

    amanda will be free yet in 2010 and the men that framed her will have wrecked there own lives

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the ledge of the basin.
    Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the bidet.
    Mixed with Meredith blood on a box of Q Tip cotton swabs.
    Mixed with Meredith’s blood in the hallway.
    Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the floor of Filomena’s room, where the break-in was staged.”

    Sorry to pull rank on your English again Al, I know it’s not critique of the highest quality, but how would this read (in English), if it were written this way round:

    ”Meredith’s blood was:

    Mixed with Amanda’s DNA on the ledge of the basin.

    Mixed with Amanda’s DNA on the bidet.

    Mixed with Amanda’s DNA on a box of Q Tip cotton swabs.

    Mixed with Amanda’s DNA in the hallway.

    Mixed with Amanda’s DNA on the floor of Filomena’s room, where the break-in was staged.”

    You see, having read your use of English for quite some time now, I suspect that you don’t (no actually I mean ‘can’t'), really appreciate the subtle change in the nuance of the language and its inference, which an alteration of this kind brings about to a series of expressions like those you quoted. For that reason, you create enormous frustration in your readership on these blogs because you are constantly trying to explain your ‘rationale’ using a language whose own inherent rationale is incompatible with it.

  • John Winters

    John Winters wrote:

    “..get out there and start canvassing on Amanda’s behalf in the streets ..We should organise a demonstration..”

    Al-Fhak responded:

    IN THE STREETS???
    A CUL DE SAC WILL BE SUFFICIENT FOR THE HANDFUL OF PEOPLE WHO WILL SHOW UP.

    John Winters responded (and this is for Roberto Dylan too):

    ”…..So through the night rode John Winters;
    And so through the night went his cry of alarm
    To every Middlesex village and farm,—
    A cry of defiance, and not of fear,
    A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door,
    And a word that shall echo for evermore!
    For, borne on the night-wind of the Past,
    Through all our history, to the last,
    In the hour of darkness and peril and need,
    The people will waken and listen to hear
    The hurrying hoof-beats of that steed,
    And the midnight message of John Winters”

    Henryo Wadsworth Longfellow.

  • Where oh where?

    Al, Rudy said he used the towels to try and stop Meredith from bleeding. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t, but Rudy knew the police would find the towels and he knew he’d handled the towels so he gave them an excuse for the towels to be there with his finger prints or DNA or whatever. He didn’t know that the police would screw up the towel’s so they couldn’t be used as evidence. Also, by saying he used the towels to try and help Meredith it wouldn’t make him look so much like the garbage he really is.

  • Where oh where?

    Al, the three towels are in the (in)famous Micheli report.

    “Pulled to the left wall with the headboard against the wall earlier, and single bed with mattress covered only with the sheet below, on which rest means a woman’s bag in imitation leather beige, two terry socks, a book ( ..) stained, the upper-right corner of the cover of substance blood (..); ivory terry towel, plenty of substance smeared blood (..). On the sheet, between the towel and said the bag, are two blood spots of irregular shape (..) measuring cm respectively. Length and 9.5 cm. Wide and 2 cm. Length and 14 cm. 3 wide.”

    “n the course of the corpse, following the rotation of the body, we observe on the second floor tennis shoes in white cotton, partially smeared blood substance, a green terry towel, terry towel ivory completely soaked substance of blood, the sheet above the bed, cotton white, stained in several places of blood-borne substance, a shirt with zipper,”

    So, where are the towels now? I’ve read that the (in)famous forensic department let the towels mildew. Is this on purpose, or another example of their incompetence?

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    With all that evidence do you think that those judges will believe it’s a conspiracy by the prosecution, or a massive incompetent blunder by the police, or a mass witnesses’ delusion?

    They might dismiss SOME of the DNA evidence.
    They might dismiss SOME of the other CSI evidence.
    They might dismiss SOME of the testimony.
    They might dismiss SOME of the circumstantial evidence.
    They might dismiss SOME of the inconsistent statements.

    But they WILL NOT dismiss ALL OF the evidence.

    The judges will reach the only possible conclusion:

    AMANDA AND RAFFAELE ARE GUILTY OF MURDER!

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    As Harry Rag said:

    Amanda Knox’s DNA was found on:

    1. On the double DNA knife and a number of independent forensic experts – Dr. Patrizia Stenoni, Dr. Renato Biondo and Professor Francesca Torricelli – categorically stated that Meredith’s DNA was on the blade.

    2. Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the ledge of the basin.

    3. Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the bidet.

    4. Mixed with Meredith blood on a box of Q Tip cotton swabs.

    5. Mixed with Meredith’s blood in the hallway.

    6. Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the floor of Filomena’s room, where the break-in was staged.

    7. On Meredith’s bra according to Raffaele Sollecito’s forensic expert, Professor Vinci and Dr. Stefanoni.

    Amanda Knox’s footprints were found set in Meredith’s blood in two places in the hallway of the new wing of the cottage. One print was exiting her own room, and one print was outside Meredith’s room, facing into the room. These bloody footprints were only revealed under luminol.

    A woman’s bloody shoeprint, which matched Amanda Knox’s foot size, was found on a pillow under Meredith’s body. The bloody shoeprint was incompatible with Meredith’s shoe size.

    Two independent imprint experts categorically excluded the possibility that the bloody footprint on the blue bathmat could belong to Rudy Guede. Lorenzo Rinaldi stated: ““You can see clearly that this bloody footprint on the rug does not belong to Mr. Guede, but you can see that it is compatible with Sollecito.”

    The other imprint expert print expert testified that the bloody footprint on the blue bathmat matched the precise characteristics of Sollecito’s foot.

    An abundant amount of Raffaele Sollecito’s DNA was found on Meredith’s bra clasp. Meredith’s bra was removed some time after she had been killed and Rudy Guede had fled the scene.

    The murder dynamic implicates Knox and Sollecito.

    Barbie Nadeau wrote the following:

    “Countless forensic experts, including those who performed the autopsies on Kercher’s body, have testified that more than one person killed her based on the size and location of her injuries and the fact that she didn’t fight back—no hair or skin was found under her fingernails.”

    Judge Paolo Micheli claimed that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito knew precise details about Meredith’s murder that they could have only known if they were present when she was killed.

    Amanda Knox voluntarily admitted that she involved in Meredith’s murder in her handwritten note to the police on 6 November 2007. She stated on at least four separate occasions that she was the cottage when Meredith was killed.

    Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito both gave multiple conflicting alibis and lied repeatedly. Their lies were exposed by telephone and computer records, and by CCTV footage. Neither Knox nor Sollecito have credible alibis for the night of the murder despite three attempt each.

    Legal expert Stefano Maffei stated the following:

    “There were 19 judges who looked at the evidence over the course of two years, faced with decisions on pre-trial detention, review of such detention, committal to trial, judgment on criminal responsibility. They all agreed, at all times, that the evidence was overwhelming.”

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    “..get out there and start canvassing on Amanda’s behalf in the streets ..We should organise a demonstration..”.

    IN THE STREETS???

    A CUL DE SAC WILL BE SUFFICIENT FOR THE HANDFUL OF PEOPLE WHO WILL SHOW UP.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billyterate-Ignoryant:

    Your ignorance of the most basic punctuation and orthographic rules speaks for itself.

    Without having any proof, you accuse the prosecution of having fabricated and planted incriminating evidence or even concealed or tampered with exonerating evidence.

    You’ll see the type of house arrest they’ll be put in: the Big House arrest!

    If you want to see Amanda in the next 25 years, I suggest none of you boycott Italy, because you’ll need to travel there to see her. And once you get there make sure you schedule a visit at the “Casa Circondariale” of Perugia Capanne. Visiting times are limited, you know!

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”…you are condemning an innocent person…”
    As Amanda Knox would say:
    ”S### happens”

    And that comment alone should be enough to stop people writing on blogs like these and get out there and start canvassing on Amanda’s behalf in the streets to bring home to people everywhere that she is indeed a victim of a miscarriage of justice. Comedy show? We should organise a demonstration and direct lobby of the senate.

  • billyryan

    mary H, john winters, where oh where.the judges summing up is due,what are ye hoping for amanda and raffaela being put under house arrest for the duration of the appeal process.surely the judge cannot disreguard migninis conviction for abuse of power and planting of evidence. It is so ovious that in this case the only evidence that the prosecution has got is the evidence that it planted and all the evidence that would have cleared amanda and raffaela that the prosecution has managed to disapear

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    “..you are condemning an innocent party….”

    As Amanda Knox would say:

    “SHIT HAPPENS”

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    “Where oh where have those little towels gone?”

    RITHT! I WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO THE TOWELS THAT RUDY SAID WERE THERE?

    IF RUDY SAID THERE WERE 3 TOWELS, IT MUST BE TRUE!
    RUDY IS ALWAYS SO TRUTHFUL AND TRUSTWORTHY!

    WHO KNOWS! MAYBE SOMEONE ELSE WENT BACK LATER ON AND THREW THEM AWAY! I WONDER WHO COULD HAVE DONE THAT!

  • John Winters

    What is the point of continually listing the prosecution ”evidence” like this? I’m beginning to suspect Al-Fhak and Harry Rag work in the same warehouse together.

    Rather, it can be summed up like this and does just the same job without using all that blogspace:

    ALL of the (non-footprint) DNA evidence is flawed in the extreme.

    Amanda Knox was never in Meredith Kercher’s room on Nov 1st, 2007 so could not have killed her.

    I must say, continually pointing out that the appeal court is going to find the same way as the high court because the way the Italian judiciary understand things is very different to the way everybody else in the known world understands things, is also severely draining. What’s the idea? Nauseate us into submission?
    And if it is, surely the underlying motive for this must be that you are aware you are condemning an innocent party for some ulterior motive which has nothing in fact to do with the events of Nov. 1st, 2007 at 7 Via della Pergola, Perugia.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    “I had a chance to go back this coming Oct. 2010 and opted for another location.”
    “She used to vacation in Italy once or twice a year. But no more.”

    YOU’RE BOTH DOING THE RIGHT THING! YOU’RE MUCH SAFER AT HOME. AMERICA IS A MUCH SAFER PLACE FOR TRAVELERS:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/us/14visa.html

  • Where oh where?

    “There were in fact three blood-soaked towels found in the bedroom (one may have already been in her bedroom).”

    Where oh where have those little towels gone? I guess they went to the same place the 3 fried hard drives went. Wonder what kind of evidence was on the towels the prosecution didn’t want anyone else to see?”

    Still wondering.

  • Where oh where?

    I was in Italy in Oct. 2008. I loved being there, thought it was wonderful. I had a chance to go back this coming Oct. 2010 and opted for another location. My sister lives in Paris and Corsica and has lived in Italy before. She used to vacation in Italy once or twice a year. But no more.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    WOW and JW:

    Whatever you say and believe is fine with me.

    But …………IF:

    - Amanda’s DNA is mixed with victim’s blood in bathroom
    and there is no trace of Rudy’s DNA in sink.

    - Amanda’s DNA is mixed with victim’s blood in Filomena’s burglarized bedroom and there is no trace of Rudy’s presence (DNA or fingerprints) in same bedroom or window.

    - Luminol enhanced footprints match Amanda’s and Raffaele’s.

    - Bra clasp contains Raffaele’s DNA

    - Kitchen’s knife at Raffaele’s contains victim’s DNA and Raffaele blames an accidental pricking during a dinner that never happened.

    - Witnesses saw Raffaele and Amanda in places where they said they weren’t.

    - Witnesses heard scream and multiple people running up the metal stairs at parking garage.

    - Computer/internet records disprove that Raffaele was on line or at the computer when he said he was.

    - Telephone records disprove that he received call from father when he said he did.

    - Telephone records show he turned on phones when he said he was asleep.

    - Amanda blamed an innocent person and did not retract for weeks and police had to find out on their own that person accused was falsely accused.

    - Raffaele said Amanda wasn’t at his home between 9 and 1am, when she said she was.

    - Raffaele doesn’t remember if she even slept with him that night.

    - Raffaele still refuses to testify.

    HOW DO YOU THINK ARE THE JUDGES GOING TO INTERPRET ALL THESE CIRCUMSTANCES?

    THAT RUDY COMMITTED THE CRIME ALL BY HIMSELF AFTER A BURGLARY GONE WRONG, WHILE AMANDA AND RAFFAELE WERE INNOCENTLY WATCHING A DVD AT HIS APARTMENT AND NEVER MOVED FROM THERE?

    SORRY PEOPLE. BUT UNLESS YOU GET A BUNCH OF JUDGES STONED BY THE SAME DRUGS THAT AMANDA AND RAFFAELE ARE USED TO SMOKING, IT IS VERY UNLIKELY THAT THEY’LL BELIEVE THE LONE WOLF THEORY WHILE THE TWO LOVERS ARE AT HOME.

    I GIVE IT A GOOD CHANCE THAT THEY’LL BE FOUND GUILTY IN APPEAL. OF COURSE YOU’RE FREE TO GET MAD AND BOYCOTT ITALY AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE. BUT YOUR BOYCOTTS DON’T SCARE ANYBODY. BESIDES MOST OF THOSE WHO WOULD BOYCOTT ARE PEOPLE WHO WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO AFFORD TRAVELING TO ITALY ANYWAY.

    I BET NONE OF YOU HAS VISITED THERE IN THE PAST 5 YEARS. ACTUALLY I’M PRETTY SURE MANY OF YOU NEVER VISITED ITALY IN YOUR LIFE. AND YOUR IGNORANT COMMENTS OFTEN SHOW IT.

  • John Winters

    Geez that last post of Al’s really proves he only gets hyper-upset when someone points out something truly gobsmacking like:

    ”From his (Guede’s), prison diary:”I took a towel from her bathroom, but in less than a minute it was all soaked. I took another, but it was no use.”

    LOL (as in the ‘laugh out loud’ interpretation).

  • Where oh where?

    Since most of the judges/jury are of Als ilk, it’s no wonder Amanda and Raffaele were convicted. Dude, you have absolutely no insight or common sense. How often in life have you been fleeced? If I was a con man I’d be wanting your address because I have this bridge…..

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    “Guede has said repeatedly he went to Meredith’s bathroom to get towels to try and stop the bleeding.”

    DIDN’T WE ESTABLISH THAT GUEDE’S STATEMENTS ARE NOT CREDIBLE? WHY DO WE PICK AND CHOOSE HIS STATEMENTS ONLY WHEN IT’S CONVENIENT?

    HE ALSO SAID THAT HE WAS IN THE BATHROOM WHEN A GUY CAME IN AND KILLED MEREDITH. WHY DON’T WE BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAYS THAT, BUT WE BELIEVE HIM WHEN HE SAYS THAT HE PICKED UP THE TOWELS TO HELP MEREDITH?

    IF RUDY IS THE ONE WHO VICIOUSLY KILLED MEREDITH BY CUTTING HER THROAT MULTIPLE TIMES, WHY WOULD HE BE SO CONCERNED TO STOP HER BLEEDING WITH THE TOWELS? I’VE NEVER HEARD OF A VICIOUS KILLER WHO COMMITS A HEINOUS CRIME LIKE THAT AND THEN TRIES TO HELP THE VICTIM BY STOPPING THE BLEEDING.

    BUT OH WELL! ANYTHING TO BLAME THE NEGRO ONLY! WHATEVER WORKS!

    “Guede would have left traces of blood in the sink when he washed his hands”

    WHY DIDN’T THEY FIND HIS DNA MIXED WITH THE BLOOD THEN? WHY WAS THE BLOOD MIXED WITH AMANDA’S DNA IF THE BLOOD CAME OFF HIS HANDS?

    RUDY WAS WEARING SHOES (THEY FOUND HIS FOOTPRINT FROM HIS TENNIS SHOE), AND THEY DIDN’T FIND ANY BARE FOOTPRINTS BELONGING TO HIM IN THE HALL OR THE BEDROOM. THE BLOODY BARE FOOTPRINT IN THE BATHMAT MAY NOT BE HIS. AS A MATTER OF FACT POLICE EXPERTS SAID IT WASN’T HIS. WHY DIDN’T THEY FIND HIS BARE FOOTPRINTS ANYWHERE ELSE? WAS HE FLYING?

    AND WHY WOULD HE WASH HIS FEET IN THE BIDET IF HE WAS WEARING SHOES? HE COULD HAVE SIMPLY WIPED THE BLOOD OFF HIS SHOE.

    ______________________

    SO YOU THINK THAT THE JUDGES ARE GOING TO BELIEVE YOUR THEORIES IN SPITE OF THE ABOVE INCONSISTENCIES?

    WELL! GOOD LUCK TO YOU AND AMANDA MY FRIEND! BUT I’M TELLING YOU HOW THE JUDGES MOST LIKELY WILL INTERPRET THAT EVIDENCE:

    1 – BLOOD+AMANDA’S DNA IN THE BATHROOM= AMANDA IS THE ONE WHO CARRIED THE BLOOD TO THE BATHROOM

    2 – BLOODY BARE FEET REVEALED BY LUMINOL MATCHING AMANDA’S AND RAFFAELE’S (AND NOT TO GUEDE)= AMANDA AND RAFFAELE WERE PART OF EITHER THE MURDER OR THE CLEAN UP STAGE WHILE BAREFOOT.

    3 – NO TRACES OF RUDY IN FILOMENA’S ROOM OR WINDOW AND NO MISSING VALUABLES EVEN THOUGH IN PLAIN SIGHT = BREAK IN WAS STAGED AND WAS STAGED BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN RUDY.

    4 – BLOOD + AMANDA’S DNA IN FILOMENA’S BEDROOM = AMANDA PARTICIPATED IN STAGED BREAK IN AFTER THE MURDER.

    5 – RAFFAELE’S DNA ON BRA CLASP = RAFFAELE PARTICIPATED IN MURDER OR IN TAMPERING OF CRIME SCENE (EXPERTS DETERMINED THAT BRA WAS REMOVED AFTER KILLING)

    THAT IS HOW THE JUDGES WILL LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE. DON’T BELIEVE ME? JUST SIT AND WATCH A COUPLE OF YEARS FROM NOW.

  • Where oh where?

    Shane said: “Guede has said repeatedly he went to Meredith’s bathroom to get towels to try and stop the bleeding. From his prison diary:”I took a towel from her bathroom, but in less than a minute it was all soaked. I took another, but it was no use.” There were in fact three blood-soaked towels found in the bedroom (one may have already been in her bedroom).”

    Where oh where have those little towels gone? I guess they went to the same place the 3 fried hard drives went. Wonder what kind of evidence was on the towels the prosecution didn’t want anyone else to see?

  • Roberto Dylan

    With the pending judgement looming on the horizon, a little prophecy from me:

    “Shadows are falling and I’ve been here all day
    It’s too hot to sleep time is running away
    Feel like my soul has turned into steel
    I’ve still got the scars that the sun didn’t heal
    There’s not even room enough to be anywhere

    It’s not dark yet, but it’s getting there”

  • Shane

    Al-Fakh wrote: “No, I didn’t know. Where did he say that he fetched towels from THAT bathroom? or from any bathroom at all? How do you know that he didn’t fetch that towel from Meredith’s bedroom? Can you show me the source that he fetched the towel from THAT bathroom?

    And even if he fetched the towels from THAT bathroom, as you claim (without knowing where you got that information from), how is the act of fetching the towels from a towel rack, which was probably reachable from the door threshold, justify the presence of blood in the bidet or in the sink?”

    Guede has said repeatedly he went to Meredith’s bathroom to get towels to try and stop the bleeding. From his prison diary:”I took a towel from her bathroom, but in less than a minute it was all soaked. I took another, but it was no use.” There were in fact three blood-soaked towels found in the bedroom (one may have already been in her bedroom).

    If Guede was traipsing from the blood-spattered bedroom into the bathroom to mop up blood, as he says, don’t you think it’s likely he would have carried traces of blood in there with him? Since no blood was found in the big bathroom (which was further away from Meredith’s room; the small bathroom was ‘her bathroom’, the one she used) it seems unlikely he went to the other side of the house to fetch towels. Why would he?

    Guede would have left traces of blood in the sink when he washed his hands (do you think he would have left the house with hands covered in blood? Could be tricky if he was seen…) and in the bidet when he washed his bloody foot (after he accidentally left the print on the bathmat).

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Haven’t gone to the Examiner since this morning. Nobody is writing there anymore I stopped checking it.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Hey Mary Ho:
    Baleno is actually my other nickname, which I have to use when anti-muslim newspapers ban my beautiful Arab name. It’s not Iustitia’s.

    Let’s not mix up names here, ok? Iustitia is the Commissario Montalbano friend of that Peter guy in New Jersey. I’ve got nothing to do with True Justice.

    And nobody is gone for good except for the dead. Iustitia is still in the Bay Area spending the long weekend with his family, as I’m with mine, and actually maybe tomorrow we might even get together and device some strategies to fakh with you, John and the rest of the FOAkers a little more.

    PS: Iustitia told me that none of those True Justice people, including himself, get any money from the guy in New Jersey. Do you actually think that rich people like that Peter would separate themselves with money so easily? Haven’t you learned yet that the richest people are the stingiest they get?

  • Mary H.

    Ah, yes, and your oil wells and factory; she must know about those, too.

    Hey, Al, I just got back from checking out the examiner, where you got your idea from Antonio about the “sh*t happens” comment. Way to be original, man!

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    I said: “I HAVE A WIFE.”
    To which Mary Ho responds: “I doubt it, quite frankly.”

    Are you getting jealous Mary? You’re still sexy blondie, don’t worry! Sorry to disappoint you, but yes, I’m taken. And she also knows about my Arab-Italian origins so briliantly displayed in my nickname, which is so famous throughout the blogosphere:

    http://blog.ilgiornale.it/foa/2009/12/02/un-lettore-musulmano-ci-scrive-siamo-davvero-paranoici/

    No I’m not drunk today. I don’t really drink much, never have. Just the standard glass of wine while eating, like good old italians do.

  • Mary H.

    Oh, I think I know what’s eating Al-Flooey P’tooey today. He thought Ivstitia was jivin’ when he said he was gone for good, but now, after spending the weekend trying to get Itchy to rejoin him in his Tuscan treachery, Al finds himself all alone amongst a bunch of Amanda supporters. Aw, boo hoo, po’ widdo expatriate bigot! Well, what’s a fellow to do but go on the offensive? And I do mean offensive!

    Back to truejustice with you and Ivstitia/Baleno/Commissario Montalbano/Pinocchio, where everybody bows down before the gods of Peter Quennell and ronulus/Harry Rag/La Machine and their bags of money.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    “Is it reasonable to allow jurors to fall asleep when they have accepted an invitation to take part in a court session which ultimately, will have to make a decision about the next 26 years of a young girl’s life?”

    As Amanda Knox would say:

    SHIT HAPPENS!

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”HOW DO YOU THINK REASONABLE JUDGES WILL INTERPRET THAT??”

    To which Mary H. replies:

    ”Since when are we talking about reasonable judges? I thought we were talking about the judges in Perugia.”

    I must say I agree with Mary H. here. Whatever the Italian contingent on these blogs say about the classical roots of their grand judiciary, this case seems to be proving something of a rude awakening for their judicial system in Perugia, which more than once was caught napping (quite literally), mid-session!!

    Is it reasonable to allow jurors to fall asleep when they have accepted an invitation to take part in a court session which ultimately, will have to make a decision about the next 26 years of a young girl’s life?

  • Al-Beefaqhd Goudh

    Hi Mary:
    Yes I’m Af-Fakh Yugoudh’s wife. He’s really married to me. I know he jokes a lot, so I don’t worry about what he writes on these blogs.

    But after reading your stupid posts above, I too think that you’re a blond.

    If Amanda is guilty I do really think that she really deserves to go to prison, you know!

    And if she’s not guilty at all but she still gets convicted, then…
    ..oh well! If that happens, then, to paraphrase Amanda Knox: “Shit happens!”

  • Harry Rag

    e evidence against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito is overwhelming.

    Amanda Knox’s DNA was found on:

    1. On the double DNA knife and a number of independent forensic experts – Dr. Patrizia Stenoni, Dr. Renato Biondo and Professor Francesca Torricelli – categorically stated that Meredith’s DNA was on the blade.

    2. Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the ledge of the basin.

    3. Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the bidet.

    4. Mixed with Meredith blood on a box of Q Tip cotton swabs.

    5. Mixed with Meredith’s blood in the hallway.

    6. Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the floor of Filomena’s room, where the break-in was staged.

    7. On Meredith’s bra according to Raffaele Sollecito’s forensic expert, Professor Vinci and Dr. Stefanoni.

    Amanda Knox’s footprints were found set in Meredith’s blood in two places in the hallway of the new wing of the cottage. One print was exiting her own room, and one print was outside Meredith’s room, facing into the room. These bloody footprints were only revealed under luminol.

    A woman’s bloody shoeprint, which matched Amanda Knox’s foot size, was found on a pillow under Meredith’s body. The bloody shoeprint was incompatible with Meredith’s shoe size.

    Two independent imprint experts categorically excluded the possibility that the bloody footprint on the blue bathmat could belong to Rudy Guede. Lorenzo Rinaldi stated: ““You can see clearly that this bloody footprint on the rug does not belong to Mr. Guede, but you can see that it is compatible with Sollecito.”

    The other imprint expert print expert testified that the bloody footprint on the blue bathmat matched the precise characteristics of Sollecito’s foot.

    An abundant amount of Raffaele Sollecito’s DNA was found on Meredith’s bra clasp. Meredith’s bra was removed some time after she had been killed and Rudy Guede had fled the scene.

    The murder dynamic implicates Knox and Sollecito.

    Barbie Nadeau wrote the following:

    “Countless forensic experts, including those who performed the autopsies on Kercher’s body, have testified that more than one person killed her based on the size and location of her injuries and the fact that she didn’t fight back—no hair or skin was found under her fingernails.”

    Judge Paolo Micheli claimed that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito knew precise details about Meredith’s murder that they could have only known if they were present when she was killed.

    Amanda Knox voluntarily admitted that she involved in Meredith’s murder in her handwritten note to the police on 6 November 2007. She stated on at least four separate occasions that she was the cottage when Meredith was killed.

    Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito both gave multiple conflicting alibis and lied repeatedly. Their lies were exposed by telephone and computer records, and by CCTV footage. Neither Knox nor Sollecito have credible alibis for the night of the murder despite three attempt each.

    Legal expert Stefano Maffei stated the following:

    “There were 19 judges who looked at the evidence over the course of two years, faced with decisions on pre-trial detention, review of such detention, committal to trial, judgment on criminal responsibility. They all agreed, at all times, that the evidence was overwhelming.”

  • Mary H.

    “BUT HOW DO YOU THINK REASONABLE JUDGES WILL INTERPRET THAT??”

    Since when are we talking about reasonable judges? I thought we were talking about the judges in Perugia.

    “I HAVE A WIFE.”

    I doubt it, quite frankly. Ask her to come to the computer so we can see if she knows about all your obscene pseudonyms, which got you kicked off the Seattle Times blogs. Ask her what she thinks about your active fantasy life involving Amanda and Meredith, and how she likes it when you write, “I bet you’re a blond. Which makes you even sexier.”

    You sound like a mean drunk today.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Shame: “But you do know Rudy himself admitted to going into the bloody bathroom several times to fetch towels, right?”

    No, I didn’t know. Where did he say that he fetched towels from THAT bathroom? or from any bathroom at all? How do you know that he didn’t fetch that towel from Meredith’s bedroom? Can you show me the source that he fetched the towel from THAT bathroom?

    And even if he fetched the towels from THAT bathroom, as you claim (without knowing where you got that information from), how is the act of fetching the towels from a towel rack, which was probably reachable from the door threshold, justify the presence of blood in the bidet or in the sink?

    If that blood were the result of Rudy washing his hands, which were probably bloody, wouldn’t his DNA be mixed with the blood instead of Amanda’s? And wouldn’t his bloody fingerprints be on the faucet knobs or the light switch?

    Well, they didn’t find his fingerprints or DNA mixed with the blood in that bathroom. But instead they found AMANDA’S DNA mixed with the bathroom. How do you think the judges will interpret that? THINK ABOUT IT! FORGET ABOUT HOW AL-FAKH YUGOUDH INTERPRETS THAT! BUT HOW DO YOU THINK REASONABLE JUDGES WILL INTERPRET THAT??

    MARY HO.: ” Is it because it’s Valentine’s Day and you don’t have a date? ”

    I’M MARRIED MARY HO. HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
    THEREFORE YES. I GUESS YOU’RE RIGHT. I DON’T HAVE A DATE. I HAVE A WIFE.

    “you shouldn’t be allowed to pretend you’re not a racist ”
    MARY HO., I’M WHITE AND MY WIFE IS BLACK AND A BIT DARKER THAN BOTH RUDY GUEDE AND LUMUMBA.
    THE DAY YOU ARE IN A BIRACIAL RELATIONSHIP LIKE ME, YOU’RE ALLOWED TO CALL ME A RACIST. TILL THEN, SHUT THE F*U*C*K UP!

  • Mary H.

    Why are you being such a complete d*ckwad today, Al-Foolish? Is it because it’s Valentine’s Day and you don’t have a date? Even you aren’t usually this bad.

    “Sure. Makes sense to me! Anything to blame the negro, man!!”

    If Americans aren’t allowed to criticize the Italian justice system because our system is flawed, then you shouldn’t be allowed to pretend you’re not a racist when everything you write indicates you’re a complete bigot in every other way.

  • Shane

    Al Fakh wrote: “But who brought that blood there? There were no DNA or fingerprints belonging to Rudy, so how did the blood get there?

    If lack of DNA or fingerprints in the bedroom is sufficient to exonerate Amanda from being in the murder scene, then the same lack of DNA should be sufficient to exonerate Rudy from being in the bloody bathroom”.

    But you do know Rudy himself admitted to going into the bloody bathroom several times to fetch towels, right? Why would he lie?

  • Shane

    John Winters wrote: “Rest of the world: Al-Fhak’s DNA is involved in the findings because he lives in the house where the bathroom is.

    TJFMK: Al-Fhak is somehow wholly or in part responsible for the visitor cutting themselves.”

    Haha, so true!

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Sure Mary Ho.

    No matter what the evidence is, everything must point to Rudy. If somehow it doesn’t, and actually points to someone else, we find an excuse, any unlikely scenario we can think of, to make it point to him anyway.

    I’m sure the judges will believe that theory of yours as well. It was blood dripped from the towel…

    Sure. Makes sense to me! Anything to blame the negro, man!!

  • Mary H.

    You forget my theory at your peril, Al-Flak.

    Incidentally, we are talking about very small drops of blood, and technicians using the same swab to collect samples from different areas.

    We are also talking about Rudy grabbing towels to apply to Meredith’s neck. If he put the blood there, it was probably while holding the towels.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Whatever you say, Joint Sphyncters.

    What you say makes a lot of sense. Amanda’s DNA was already in the sink and in the bidet, and got mixed with Meredith’s blood.

    But who brought that blood there? There were no DNA or fingerprints belonging to Rudy, so how did the blood get there?

    If lack of DNA or fingerprints in the bedroom is sufficient to exonerate Amanda from being in the murder scene, then the same lack of DNA should be sufficient to exonerate Rudy from being in the bloody bathroom.

    Oh I forgot Mary Ho’s theory! Maybe the police didn’t look hard enough.

    Give me a break, will you?!

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”In the….bathroom they found Amanda’s DNA mixed with the blood.”

    This phrase has become etched in my brain because I have to read it used by TJFMK in blogs severally, on a daily basis. To a newcomer curious about this case and interested in learning more about it, this repeated phrase would convince them quite quickly that its content has some vital truth about it which surely damns Amanda to the chains of gaol for many a year. It has that tautological ring of a perfectly-formed declarative statement about it, and when repeated frequently like this, it takes on the characteristics of a commonly-held belief.

    Yet actually, it is not worth a light. Imagine Al-Fhak had a visitor to his house this evening, and that visitor cut their finger in the kitchen and went to the bathroom to treat the cut, depositing some blood there in the process. And for no particular reason, if a CSI team made a DNA sweep of that bathroom the next day, they would find the visitor’s blood mixed with Al-Fhak’s DNA. And what would they, and everybody else in the known world (excluding the discerning members of the TJFMK crowd), conclude from this?

    Rest of the world: Al-Fhak’s DNA is involved in the findings because he lives in the house where the bathroom is.

    TJFMK: Al-Fhak is somehow wholly or in part responsible for the visitor cutting themselves.

    Again I appeal to the Logic and Linguistics communities to damn this reasoning and assign it to the same trash can that Perugian translations of ”See you later” were assigned to on a previous occasion.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Joint Sphyncters and Mary Ho:

    Whatever you say!

    Unfortunately for you, you will not have a saying on the appeal and nobody in that appeal court will be listening to you either. So good luck with your theories!

    Personally, I will be ok with either appeal decision. You, on the other hand, could become really agitated if things don’t go your way. In that case, I hope you have your high blood pressure medicines ready. You might need them.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billiterate ryanus, as long as you’re here I’ll keep coming whenever I happen to be at the computer. Maybe not as often as before, but I will come and denounce your stupidity. I never said that I was an expert in Italian law, Illiterate idiot! That was my friend Iustitia, not me. I’ve never studied Italian law, I just was in the Carabinieri and that was a long time ago. In any case, although my knowledge of Italian law cannot compare with Iustitia’s, I still know much more than you, because you don’t know f***ing sh*t about anything, you stinking illiterate. And I’m not paid either to write these posts, otherwise you couldn’t keep up reading all of them, because I’d be posting thousands a week. You think that Italian law is inefficient? I agree with you fully, because it’s very slow, and it is so because of all the procedural guarantees it provides in a world of limited resources (i.e. not enough judges to take care of it all). Do you think it’s unfair? It certainly is, because if you are really innocent it takes a long time before your ordeal is finally over. But is it really that bad for murderers like Amanda? Not it is not!! In most countries vicious murderers like her would be locked up for much longer and wouldn’t have so many guaranteed appeal chances. Amanda was much better of having committed murder in Italy than in any other country. So don’t complain! A murderer like her has a much better chance of getting away with it in Italy than in any other country. And Americans should be the last one to talk, God knows how many innocent people have been executed in the US in the last 3 or 4 decades since the capital punishment has been reinstituted. Of those 250 people found innocent by the Innocence Project, almost 10% were in death row. So try to extrapolate to the thousands of potentially innocent people who couldn’t be tested for DNA for one reason or another. Go back to your stinking hole, you hillbilly!

  • John Winters

    Al-Fhak says:

    ”- by demonstrating in court that all the evidence stacked up against her is the simultenous result of:”

    OKAY SO FAR……

    -Incompetent CSI work in collecting and analysing evidence

    YES…..

    -Accidental Lab contamination

    YES………

    -witnesses’ mass delusion

    LOL……ARE YOU SERIOUSLY REFERRING TO THAT CIRCUS TROUPE THE PROSECUTION WHEELED OUT?

    -police brutality
    - falsified police reports
    - inaccurate CCTV clock
    -inaccurate internet/computer records
    -inaccurate phone records

    NO PROBLEMS THERE – SO IT’S JUST THE COMEDY ROUTINE WITH THE ”WITNESSES” THAT’S GONNA GIVE US A FEW PROBLEMS.

    ”If all of the above are true, she’ll a free woman in two or three years from now when the appeal is over. Unfortunately guys, on average the appeal ends 2 to 3 years after the first trial. Italian justice is meticulous

    STOP THAT, MY RIBS ACHE. ARE YOU REFERRING HERE TO THAT SHODDY AND EMBARRASSING DISPLAY OF CACK-HANDED INCOMPETENCE WHERE THE WHOLE WORLD WAS PARTY TO A SHOW OF INCOMPETENCE ON A GRAND SCALE INVOLVING THE BLATANT ABUSE OF EVIDENCE IN A VARIETY OF WAYS WHICH WAS UNCONTESTED BY ALL – INCLUDING ”THE DEFENSE TEAM?
    BECAUSE IF YOU ARE NOT, CAN YOU GUARANTEE THAT THIS ”METICULOUSNESS” THAT YOU SPEAK OF WILL BE A FEATURE OF THE ITALIAN APPEALS PROCESS.

  • Mary H.

    billy, every time I read your descriptions of Hil-Fakh and Mignini’s relationship, I laugh right out loud. :D

    Al-Fake-dogshite wrote: “Mary Ho. All your hypotheses why they didn’t find Rudy’s DNA in Mez’s bathroom are based on conjectures out of your own ass. No basis whatsoever.”

    I wish I had the strong basis Mignini had for his hypotheses. I don’t live in Perugia, though, so I didn’t have the opportunity to stand in the corner and take notes when Amanda said to Meredith, “Ah, you were pretending to be such a little saint. … Now we are going to show you.”

    And there certainly was no conjecture whatsoever in Judge Matteini’s report, in which she wrote:

    “It is possible to reconstruct what happened on the evening of November 1…..

    ….A little after, Meredith returned or she might have been already there. She went into her room with Patrick, after which something went badly….

    ….She was then menaced with a knife, a knife which Sollecito usually had with him, and with which Meredith was struck in the throat.”

    None of which turned out to be true.

  • billyryan

    just when i though the smell of dogshite was about to leave this blog.the jew who changed to be a muslim because the beating of women was more acceptable to that religion returns.the word anus is becoming a regular part of your posts,fuelled no doubt by your desire to have mignini prick up yours al_fake_illerate_dogshite its not so long ago since you told us amanda would have to deal with mignini for the rest of her ordeal,that is not true,seemily you think you are an expert on italian law and how perfect it is.in the eec it is seen as the least efficient or fair system in europe something that the italians are trying to address.you became very adgitated when i said amanda might get support off the american government it is fairly ovious to me that is the reason traiters like you have been payed to post on bloggs like this,i suppose you and your smell is here to stay

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billiterathilarious ryanus if there is somebody with limited intellectual ability here that is you. If I want to come back and post here when I have time I do and I don’t need to ask for your permission you illiterate piece of merda. The reason I don’t post during the week much is because I’m too busy at work these days to come to this site and waste time with idiots like you. Wherever you are I’m sure there are plenty of high rises or cliffs where you can jump from.

    And Mary Ho. Your posts are really stupid, I bet you’re a blond. Which makes you even sexier. Somehow you’re saying that the absence of Amanda’s DNA evidence in Mez’s room means that she wasn’t there and therefore she wasn’t part of the murder. However the absence of Rudy’s DNA in Mez’s bathroom doesn’t mean that he wasn’t there. You basically apply a double standard, and you try to find lots of excuses why it is so, excuses of which you have no basis. “The police could have…”, “maybe they forgot to check….”. The fact that they found Amanda’s DNA in that bathroom means that they did tested that bathroom.

    And Shame: the bathroom with the blood traces is not the same bathroom where Rudy took a crap. Rudy took his crap in Filomena’s and Laura’s bathroom, the victim’s blood was in Mez’s and Amanda’s bathroom. They did test both bathrooms, they found Rudy’s DNA in Filomena’s bathroom (where he took a crap) but not in Mez’s (where the blood was). In the latter bathroom they found Amanda’s DNA mixed with the blood.

    Mary Ho. All your hypotheses why they didn’t find Rudy’s DNA in Mez’s bathroom are based on conjectures out of your own ass. No basis whatsoever.

    You just want to apply the double standard because that’s the rule you apply:

    When the evidence incriminates Amanda or Raffa, it’s not valid evidence, because it’s contaminated.
    When the same evidence incriminates Rudy, then it’s good evidence.

    When evidence incrimiinating Amanda is lacking, it means she wasn’t there.
    When there is no evidence incriminating Rudy, it doesn’t mean anything. He was still there. They didn’t find anything because the police didn’t look hard enough.

    Yeah Right! Good luck thinking that the judges are not going to see the double standard applied here.

    No Mary Ho. That’s not how it works. This is how the judges will look at it:

    1-Rudy’s DNA is in the victim and Raffa’s DNA on the bra. Then they were both there when the murder occurred.
    2-Amanda’s DNA was in the bathroom mixed with Mez’s blood (but Rudy’s is not there at all). Then Amanda is the one who brought the blood in that bathroom.

    Maybe they’ll decide that Amanda wasn’t the one who killed, and she was out of the room, but they’ll definitely accuse her of having participated in the later staging and clean up. Either way she’s still an accessory to murder.

    If you think that the judges will apply your double standards and free her because they’re scared of Donald Trump’s boycott, I’m afraid that you’re all going to have a very rude awakening.

  • billyryan

    al_fakeillerate_dogshite you claimed you were leaving this blog,or was it just a tatic to get more money out of whoever is paying you,i assume thirty pices of silver would buy your loyalty for any cause.i think this case is a war and they shoot traiters during a war.
    enzo zoff you tell us about your friend in australia i accept your word and i have great sympathy for him i cannot understand why you post here trying to get support for the amanda is guilty brigade
    its amasing al_fake_illerate_dogshite when you dissapear your aliases appear when you return they dissapear. I was sort of hoping you would dissapear and be just happy wanking yourself looking at the photographs mignini gave you of when these brave men had amanda crying,you know the ones he gave you for sucking his cock.i think you mentioned california surely there is a highrise building with water or concrete at the base for someone as intelectually limited as you are to do the world a favour

  • Shane

    I think you’re right, Mary. After all, Guede himself admitted he had gone into the bathroom several times. In Guede’s case the evidence led to him; they weren’t looking for evidence to incriminate him in the way they were with Knox and Sollecito. Did they even have any samples left from the bathroom at the time he was caught to check for his DNA?

    I suspect the only testing they did in the bathroom was to check the visible blood stains for Amanda’s and Raffaele’s DNA, because they needed evidence against them. They wouldn’t have checked it for Laura’s and Filomena’s, even though theirs was almost certainly there too, since they lived in the cottage.

    Have to say I’m a little surprised to hear Al-Fakh or any pro-guilter saying lack of DNA means someone can’t have been there, though. It’s rather a strong argument in favor of Amanda’s total non-involvement!

  • Mary H.

    Hello all. Regarding the blood and DNA in the bathroom, I suspect that investigators didn’t even test for Rudy’s DNA in the bathroom.

    The police cleaned up bloody footprints in the hall that day. It is entirely possible they took pictures of the bloody footprint in the bathroom, then cleaned it up. That would explain why they used the photo as evidence at the trial, rather than DNA results — I mean, could the footprint really have had NO ONE’s DNA in it?

    In the first couple of days after the discovery of the body, the police believed Meredith had had only one attacker. They may have assumed that since there was plenty of evidence at the crime scene itself, the preservation of evidence from other areas of the house could be placed lower on their list of priorities.

    It was two weeks before Rudy became a suspect. Before that, and after Amanda, Raffaele and Patrick were arrested, the focus of the investigation was on finding evidence to support the allegations of their guilt. For example, the judge believed Raffaele’s knife was the murder weapon, so that knife was tested for blood. When none was found, the police went looking for another knife.

    When the police collected fingerprints, they did not canvas the whole house; they selected areas they considered suspicious or potentially involved in the crime. For example, they did not collect fingerprints from Amanda’s bedroom (hence the widespread myths about the thorough cleaning that never happened).

    Along the same lines, it is possible the tests done on the blood samples from the bathroom were aimed selectively at finding specific evidence of Amanda, Raffaele and Patrick, while ignoring any other DNA that might have been present. Then later, by the time they had collected so much of Rudy’s DNA from the crime scene, they may not have been too worried about retesting the the bathroom samples, or they may have used them up, the way they used up the sample from the kitchen knife.

    When you read some of the comments police made about their decisions (including suspecting Amanda) being based on their experience and their intuition, it becomes clear that the process of collecting evidence in the case was anything but rigidly scientific.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @billy ryan:

    “the italian government might just pull enough strings to get amanda released during the appeal process.”

    Mate, the italian government can’t pull enough strings to get it’s own agenda through; AND, on what basis would/could it pull the strings? We need to let K free otherwise Dona;d Trump won’t visit us?

    Italy ranks about 7-8 as a world power. She’s ITALIA not Italia-stan.

    What happens next? the italian government asks for the 2 italian prisoners in your jails?

    Mate, K/S aren’t hostages held by the mafia; they have been tried by italian courts and found guilty. Please remember, S is ITALIAN !!!!

    Your next headache is going to be the trial of S’s sister for attempted corruption of police evidence. She was a lieutenant and was dismissed. God only knows what is going to flow from there – but it won’t be pretty.

    Do you know what is great about the italian judicial system?

    It has the obligation of laboriously having to detail and reconcile the reasons behind the judgement reached. This makes it very EASIER for a defendant on what areas to concentrate in breaking down for an appeal. In your country it would have been: “Guilty, your honour”.

    If you were Amanda, which system would you prefer?

    If my friend GTI had been tried in Italy, the judgement would have been blank !

    guys, pray for small mercies,

    dixi

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billiterate ryanus:

    -It won’t be the Italian public opinion to convince the judges to acquit Amanda.
    -It won’t be the American public opinion to convince the judges to acquit Amanda.
    -It won’t be the threat of boycott by US travelers to convince the judges to acquit Amanda
    -It won’t be the political pressure by American politicians to convince the judges to acquit Amanda
    -It won’t be the political pressure by Berlusconi’s government to convince the judges to acquit Amanda.

    There is only one way to get the judges to acquit Amanda:

    - by demonstrating in court that all the evidence stacked up against her is the simultenous result of:

    -Incompetent CSI work in collecting and analysing evidence
    -Accidental Lab contamination
    -witnesses’ mass delusion
    -police brutality
    - falsified police reports
    - inaccurate CCTV clock
    -inaccurate internet/computer records
    -inaccurate phone records

    If all of the above are true, she’ll a free woman in two or three years from now when the appeal is over. Unfortunately guys, on average the appeal ends 2 to 3 years after the first trial. Italian justice is meticulous and full of guarantees for the defendants but very very slow.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billiterateryanus said:
    “if the whitehouse was to state that they do not think that italy is a safe destination for us tourists in 2010″

    HAHAHAHA! GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE!

    THE NATION WITH 8 TIMES THE MURDER RATE OF ITALY, THE NATION WITH 12 TIMES THE INCARCERATION RATE OF ITALY, THE NATION WHERE 250 INMATES HAVE BEEN RECENTLY EXONERATED FROM THEIR CRIME AFTER DECADES IN PRISON BECAUSE INNOCENT, THE NATION THAT IS TRYING TO CONVINCE EUROPEANS TO INCREASE THEIR EFFORT IN AFGHANISTAN (ITALY HAS THE 3RD LARGEST PRESENCE IN THAT COUNTRY) DECLARES THAT ITALY IS NOT SAFE.

    THAT’S REALLY FUNNY! I ALMOST BURST MY BELLY AGAIN.

    PLEASE COME UP WITH MORE OF THOSE, BILLITERATERYANUS! LAUGHING IS REALLY GOOD FOR HEALTH.

    the italian government might just pull enough strings to get amanda released during the appeal process.

    HAHAHAHA! THIS ONE IS EVEN BETTER BILLITERATE RYANUS! THE GOVERNMENT WHOSE CHIEF CANNOT GET JUDGES OFF HIS OWN NECK GIVEN THEIR POWER AND INDEPENDENCE FROM POLITICAL PRESSURE, HAS THE ABILITY TO “PULL THE STRINGS” WITH THEM, AND PUT THEM INTO THEIR PLACE FOR AMANDA.

    BILLITERATE RYANUS. I HAVE A NEW NAME FOR YOU: billiterathilarious ryanus.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    To Shane:

    PREMISS:
    -Amanda’s DNA or fingerprints were not in Meredith’s room
    -Rudy’s DNA or fingerprints were not in Meredith’s bathroom where her blood was found
    -Rudy’s DNA or fingerprints were not in Filomena’s bedroom or broken window where the break in and burglary occurred (or staged).

    CONCLUSION:
    1-Amanda was not in Meredith’s bedroom when she was murdered.
    2- Rudy was not the one to carry the blood in the bathroom since he was never in that bathroom.
    3- The bloody footprint on the bathmat in the bathroom does not belong to Rudy.
    4- Rudy was not the one to break in through Filomena’s window.
    5- Rudy was not the one to burglarize and search for valuables in Filomena’s bedroom.

    How could the murder have happened then?

    Think of the possibilities.

  • billyryan

    i think the judges summing up now might just be of far greater importance than anything that has happened up to now.sky news in a report on the eurozone during the week showed how greece is bankrupt and will have to be bailed out. Italy has slipped back into recession and has huge budget defecit problems.who knows what might have gone on behind the scenes what if the whitehouse was to state that they do not think that italy is a safe destination for us tourists in 2010.maybe exports to the us have already suffered enough for italy to have gone back into recession.the italian government might just pull enough strings to get amanda released during the appeal process

  • Shane

    Al-Fakh said: “If it was Rudy who brought that blood in the bathroom (maybe because he washed up before fleeing the scene) his DNA would have been in the bathroom, mixed with the blood. But Rudy’s DNA wasn’t there. Therefore he was never in that bathroom.”

    If Amanda had been involved in a bloody murder, her DNA would have been in the bedroom, mixed with the blood. But Amanda’s DNA wasn’t there. Therefore she was never in that bedroom.

    Case closed?

  • Shane

    John Winters said: “Thanks Shane. I wanted to reply to that post with the information you supplied here but I wasn’t sure how Raffaele’s attorney did it. I knew it was something to do with the CCTV clock actually running 12 minutes behind time.”

    No worries, yeah her argument was very convincing. She simply pointed out that the CCTV footage showed the carabinieri at 13:22, yet cell phone records showed they called Amanda to ask for directions at 13:29 (the call went on till 13:33). This means the CCTV must have been at least 8 minutes slow, and probably a bit more. Since the postal police are seen approaching the cottage at 12:48 CCTV time, the earliest they can have arrived is 12:56 – a minute after Raffaele finished his call to the carabinieri.

    The idea they called 112 after the police arrived gets repeated so often, yet it’s as much of a myth as the bleach receipts!

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Blood from the victim was found in the bathroom, in the sink, in the bidet, on the Qtip container, etc. mixed with Amanda’s DNA.

    If it wasn’t Amanda who brought that blood in the bathroom, how did it end up there? Obviously not Meredith.

    If it was Rudy who brought that blood in the bathroom (maybe because he washed up before fleeing the scene) his DNA would have been in the bathroom, mixed with the blood. But Rudy’s DNA wasn’t there. Therefore he was never in that bathroom.

    So who brought the blood to the bathroom?

    Mistere!!!!

  • John Winters

    Shane says:

    ”Erm, I meant 8-12 minutes slow, not fast…”

    Thanks Shane. I wanted to reply to that post with the information you supplied here but I wasn’t sure how Raffaele’s attorney did it. I knew it was something to do with the CCTV clock actually running 12 minutes behind time.

  • Shane

    Erm, I meant 8-12 minutes slow, not fast…

  • Shane

    IVSTITIA wrote: “- 12:36:46 (CCTV clock time) The Fiat Punto of the Postal Police is filmed by the CCTV camera arriving and stopping in front of the parking garage. The CCTV stops filming at 12:36:54 since it’s activated only when people are walking (or cars are driving) through the activation range.”

    You forgot to mention that the actual time at which the postal police were filmed on CCTV was 12:48. You also forgot to mention that Raffaele’s attorney proved (with the aid of CCTV footage of the Carabinieri) that the CCTV time was 8-12 minutes fast…

  • John Winters

    But truthfully, once he’s out, I’ll probably call it a day.

    And you?

    Yep…when Amanda’s released, that’s that.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    I forgot to state, that once the Appeal is lodged and stamped by the Court, the documents then became ‘public’ property, ipso facto, providing to a limited extent the capacity to commence discussion in public.

    But again, at your peril.

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “If the latter, how can Australian legal restrictions prevent people from other countries from blogging about it?”

    with great difficulty, but you would do it at your own peril.

    If the blog was hosted by an organisation, they would be in risk of a hit of defamation or as a minimum some form of censorship.

    In our case, we’ve had a web-site prepared 4 days after he was sentenced!

    But we could never discuss, debate, challenge refute, critizise any aspect of the so-called Nutty Professor’s report that ‘proved’ the GTI was ‘capable’ of throwing his g/f; I’m capable of hitting a ‘hole-in-one’ in the US Masters; but what are the chances?

    In Oz, it is generally considered inappropriate to comment publicly on cases sub judice, which can be an offence in itself, leading to contempt of court proceedings. This is particularly true in criminal cases, where publicly discussing cases sub judice may constitute interference with due process.

    Again, – pray for small mercies.

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Oh, I meant to add that this accusation, “She was thrown, like a spear, by my friend, GTI,” is ridiculous.

  • Mary H.

    It does sound like your friend has a lot of people behind him and a very good chance of being acquitted. We hope.

    Regarding your comments on public debate — do you mean there isn’t enough documentation available for people to look at and discuss? Or do you mean that people are forbidden from discussing? If the latter, how can Australian legal restrictions prevent people from other countries from blogging about it?

  • Enzo Zoff

    @IVSTITIA”

    “Enjoy Sydney mate! I was there a couple of months ago and I loved it, Darling Harbour, Circular Quay and all.”

    So why didn’t you call me?

    When are you here next?

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “Does your friend have a chance?”

    Of course. But quantifying it is difficult.

    If ever you wanted a murder case based on 101% circumstantial evidence, this would be it.

    For 12 years it was considered a suicide. The father of the girlfriend acknowledged as much when she was found on the cliff’s rocky floor that morning.

    Hence, NO photographs were taken by police of the point of impact.
    There where 2 coronial enquiries and the point of impact was never questioned.
    A video re-construction was made by the police, with one officer pointing at the point of impact.

    Some 12-15 police, ambulance, rescue-squad confirmed the spot.

    12 years later, a detective, newly assigned to the case, declares that the point of impact was incorrect, it was 4.5 metres out to sea.

    Hence, he says, she could not have jumped that far; therefore it was NOT a suicide it must have been murder.

    But, if she could not jump that far, how did she get there?

    She was thrown, like a spear, by my friend, GTI.

    His g/f was 178cm and about 59 kgs.

    But why would he throw her, risking his life in pitch black darkness, when all he had to do was just ‘push’ her?
    Because, he was in a rage.
    Over what?
    She knew too much information about his affairs and GTI’s boss.
    What information?
    Dunno !

    … and so on!

    “Are his lawyers any good?”

    he has, arguably the best criminal defence lawyer in Oz.
    Dozens of criminal appeal lawyers have volunteered/pro-bono their services.
    there is a swell of support within the legal community, albeit, underground.

    ” Does Australia have a branch of the Innocence Project?”"

    Sure, And many more. There’s a guy in South Australia who has devoted his life to legal injustices.

    Unfortunately, due to defamation and other legal restrictions not much can be said UNTIL the appeal is lodged with the Court.

    Once lodged, public debate can commence but needs to be referenced and limited to the documents lodged.

    For example, had K/S been in Oz, you would NEVER be able to conduct a blog like this – pray for small mercies.

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John winters:

    “What would you advise us to do then given the above. How do we bring home to the Italian people that we are an interest group who believe Amanda Knox’s case is unlike others, and that we believe a miscarriage of justice of some kind at least, has possibly taken place.”

    Undoubtedly, they would say: “Appeal; and then Appeal again.”

    And, then they would probably add, that’s 2 extra appeals most countries, including yours, don’t extend to defendants.

    “and that we believe a miscarriage of justice of some kind at least, has possibly taken place.”

    But ONLY for amanda? not raffaele? Are you aware, how all your efforts are ONLY about Amanda’s innocence. What about Raffaele?

    Tell me, how much would you be concerned if amanda was released and not raffaele?

    Would your fire still burn in your stomachs or would you walk away from the injustice?

    You see, I want to declare my own hypocrisy and selfishness. With my friend GTI, I came to realise the legal injustices not only in Australia but also throughout the world.

    But truthfully, once he’s out, I’ll probably call it a day.

    And you?

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @where oh where:

    n.d.r:

    “the game will belayed out” should be ‘ the game will be played out’

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @where or where?

    “Enzo, I know you don’t think public opinion could sway the judges but what if the innocent/guilt ratio was the other way? What if 90% of the public thought your friend was innocent?”

    Mate, we have had cases like that; google Lindy Chamberlain, for example.

    You know, public opinion and support is great in putting the spotlight on someone/something that requires some form of scrutiny and/or exposure to such an extent that it needs to pushed in the public domain, a form of ‘we’re watching you”.

    This works beautifully and is at it’s most potent for issues of gross human injustices, e.g., Guentanamo Bay.

    But this does not ‘guarantee’ the desired result for an individual WITHOUT the supporting legal arguments and evidence that proves his/her innocence, substantial doubt, or some form of negligence/corruption.

    There is very little relief for NOT LIKING a verdict, as opposed to, PROVING verdict wrong; and I’m backed by numerous tragic historical examples.

    By the way, the opposite is also true; perceived ‘guilty’ defendants who have managed to ‘slip’ through the system e.g. OJ do not end up in jail because of opinion polls.

    That’s why I think that ultimately all efforts will have to be directed at the evidence and legal argument; the game will belayed out and won or lost in that arena; public opinion/support will be limited as to what it can do, otherwise it would be crowds that win football games and not the players.

    good luck,

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Glad to be of service, Yul-Fakh. “Hootchie-cootchie.” Does that turn you on?

    “THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT NO MATTER WHAT ITALIANS THINK, GUILTY-NOT GUILTY, THE ITALIAN JUDGES ALWAYS DO WHAT THE F*** THEY WANT BECAUSE NOBODY CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM…”

    And since the judges are in bed with the prosecutors, that explains why Mignini felt the right to do as he pleased in manufacturing the case against Amanda and Raffaele. God, he’s a buffoon.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    John Winters said
    am February 12 2010 @ 6:32 pm
    Inavest says:

    “What would you advise us to do then given the above. How do we bring home to the Italian people that we are an interest group who believe Amanda Knox’s case is unlike others, and that we believe a miscarriage of justice of some kind at least, has possibly taken place.”

    I’LL GIVE YOU THE ANSWER JOINT SPHYNCTERS:

    HAVE YOU TRIED CALLING BRUNO VESPA? MAYBE HE’LL CALL YOU AS A GUEST AT HIS “PORTA A PORTA”. HE’S THE MASTER OF MEDIA TRIALS. HE’S THE ITALIAN NANCY GRACE.

    THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT NO MATTER WHAT ITALIANS THINK, GUILTY-NOT GUILTY, THE ITALIAN JUDGES ALWAYS DO WHAT THE F*** THEY WANT BECAUSE NOBODY CAN DO NOTHING TO THEM, THEY’RE SUPER PROTECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION. NOT EVEN BERLUSCONI CAN TOUCH THEM, THAT’S WHY HE HATES THEIR GUTS.

    PS: MARY HO! I MISSED YOU, THAT’S WHY ONCE IN A WHILE I HAVE TO CHECK YOU OUT. YOU TURN ME ON WITH THOSE SEXY POSTS.

  • PhanuelB

    IZVESTIA:”I gave you the evidence presented in court. You debate it among yourselves. I’m not going to have any part in this debate.”

    No you haven’t. I have yet to see even one document in it’s full unaltered form on the Internet. Italian law does not permit full public acess to the trial record. Court documents cannot be digitized and published to the internet. What would be the reason for a law like that except for a corrupt judicial system to make sure that the public could not see the truth for themselves?

  • PhanuelB

    In the end the judges, police, and prosecutors answer to the people — at least in a democracy.

    Sometimes the people see a need to come in and see if some branch of government is doing their job. If they don’t like it that’s too bad.

    In Italy’s trial of the century, their justice system failed utterly and absolutely. This was as show trial and a kangaroo court that has shamed Italy in the eyes of the world. The sooner they do something about it the better.

  • Mary H.

    As Ivstitia has pointed out REPEATEDLY, it will not be the people of Italy who decide the case, it will be the judges and the jury. While I don’t believe for one minute what Ivstitia says about there being no interest in this case in Italy anymore, I also could not care less what the people of Italy think about the case, and I never have.

    The judges and prosecutors now know they are in the worldwide public eye and they will act accordingly. This time the evidence will be presented in a way that is intended to get Amanda out of prison, not ensure another appeal.

    I just wish it oculd be right away instead of another year from now.

  • John Winters

    Inavest says:

    ”I can assure you that neither Frank Sfarzo nor Paul Ciolino get any air time on Italian TV, and there are no media outlets in Italy that have described that evidence in the disparaging terms you have.”

    You have been very helpful with vital information concerning the (sometimes unsettling) vagaries of the Italian judicial system over the weeks since Dec 4 and thanks for that.

    What would you advise us to do then given the above. How do we bring home to the Italian people that we are an interest group who believe Amanda Knox’s case is unlike others, and that we believe a miscarriage of justice of some kind at least, has possibly taken place.

    Which as you point out, is the only way in reality to even attempt turning this thing round.

  • Mary H.

    “You debate it among yourselves.”

    Thanks, Dad. Can we keep our light on a little longer if we don’t make too much noise?

    Q: Did the prosecution present this about Amanda during the trail as an accusation?

    “A: Yes. It relates to the art. 368 C.P. charge. It was also used as part of the art. 575 C.P. charge to demonstrate her knowledge of facts that only a party present at the murder scene would have known.”

    I don’t suppose you would be willing to provide a quote or citation?

  • IVSTITIA

    Q: “What happens if the defense proves that the prosecution or police lied about one or two pieces evidence? How would that effect the judges at the appeals trial? If it can be proven, do you think it would call the whole case against Amanda and Raffaele into question?”

    A: Possibly. I’m not in the mind of the judges so I don’t know.

    Q: what happens if/when the prosecution releases the rest of the files on the knife DNA evidence to the defense and it turns out those test weren’t preformed correctly?

    A: That piece of evidence would be excluded.

    Q: Did the prosecution present this about Amanda during the trail as an accusation?

    A: Yes. It relates to the art. 368 C.P. charge. It was also used as part of the art. 575 C.P. charge to demonstrate her knowledge of facts that only a party present at the murder scene would have known.

    Q: Regarding the 112 call and police arrival.

    A: I’m not going to debate this point. We’ve done at length to no avail. Whatever your theory is, the fact is that the judges believed the theory espoused by Judge Micheli in the Guede trial: i.e. the 112 call was made after the Postal police arrival.
    What I know is the sequence of events:

    - 12:36:46 (CCTV clock time) The Fiat Punto of the Postal Police is filmed by the CCTV camera arriving and stopping in front of the parking garage. The CCTV stops filming at 12:36:54 since it’s activated only when people are walking (or cars are driving) through the activation range.

    - Police officers testify to have arrived at around 12:35.

    - 12:54:39 – RS calls 112 and the call lasts 57 seconds (i.e. until 12:55:36).

    - Unverified time after police arrival and before arrival of Filomena’s friends (Luca Altieri and Marco Zaroli): Police and RS & AK about phones and break-in, survey Filomena’s bedroom, bloody bathroom, locked door.

    - Unverified time after police arrival but before 13:00: Luca Altieri and Marco Zaroli arrive. Luca sees the post-it on the kitchen table, alongside two phones that he mistakenly thinks are the missing phones. (Meanwhile, Amanda and Raffaele disappear into Amanda’s bedroom, from which they will later reappear)

    - Unverified time few minutes after Luca’s and Marco’s arrival but before 13:00 – Filomena Romanelli and Paola Grande arrive. Paola Grande testifies that after she arrived AK and RS open the bedroom and came out. Filomena talks to Inspector Battistelli, and explains how she lent Meredith an Italian phone, and the other one is from the UK

    13:00 – Battistelli contacts HQ and reports what’s happened in the last minutes (Filomena for sure is with him). Police Commissioner at Hqtrs logs this report.

    This is the sequence of events as transpired in the court documents. I have the entire tabulation of the phone records and the CCTV film, all saved in my hard drive, so I’m sure about these records. Obviously I can’t guarantee that the CCTV clock was right or that the police told the truth about their estimated arrival, but I think we can safely assume that the telephone records are accurate as to the time.

    The court bought the hypothesis that when RS and AK disappeared into Amanda’s bedroom they placed the calls to 112, while the police officers were talking to the Italian friends.

    I gave you the evidence presented in court. You debate it among yourselves. I’m not going to have any part in this debate.

  • IVSTITIA

    billyryan, I’m not going to debate the evidence with any of you on this blog anymore because it would be a futile exercise on my part. You can certainly continue to call that evidence “discredited” evidence as much as you like, but obviously it wasn’t considered so by the court, since the judges & jurors unanimously thought it sufficient to incriminate the two defendants. I can assure you that neither Frank Sfarzo nor Paul Ciolino get any air time on Italian TV, and there are no media outlets in Italy that have described that evidence in the disparaging terms you have. So good luck turning the tide around!

  • Mary H.

    Where oh where, John W. and billyryan, you guys are sizzling today!

    Two questions for Ivstitia: 1. Did the prosecution present this about Amanda during the trail as an accusation?

    “…and of course hearing that Amanda implicated an innocent man, and didn’t retract that false accusation for 2 weeks after his arrest, are all very powerful elements in the eye of a jury.”

    2. as billy wrote: “a postal police officer stated in evidence he arrived at 12.35 he knew because he looked at his watch….his superviser stated that the car was not sent out until 12.46 phone records prove that raffaela called the police at 12.51.”

    Ivsitita, you said in another post that the postal police called in at 1:00 to report about the phones. They found the body at 1:15. I want to know what they did from the time they supposedly arrived (12:35) until 1:00. Why did they not break down the door to the missing girl’s door until they had been at the cottage for 40 minutes?

    In their efforts to make a liar out of Raffaele, they make themselves look completely incompetent, having wasted 25 minutes standing around jawing before reporting in. What really happened was they arrived around 12:55, called in to say they had arrived, then started looking around the house and finally breaking down the door. More a 15-minute job than a 40-minute one.

    To insist they arrived before Raffaele called 112 proves how deliberate the framing of Raffaele and Amanda was.

  • Where oh where?

    Ivs, I have a a couple of questions. What happens if the defense proves that the prosecution or police lied about one or two pieces evidence? How would that effect the judges at the appeals trial? If it can be proven, do you think it would call the whole case against Amanda and Raffaele into question? Notice, please, that I’m saying IF.

    Also, what happens if/when the prosecution releases the rest of the files on the knife DNA evidence to the defense and it turns out those test weren’t preformed correctly? Or, what happens to the case if the prosecution never releases that report? Again, notice I’m asking IF.

  • billyryan

    ivstitia i read your comments with interest. Ihave no doubt about what you say about the procedure of the appeal.But then you go on to repeat now completely discredited evidence as proof of amanda and raffaela guilt. first the presence of merridith dna on the knife. Ten international experts have condemed and rubbished the prosecution dna analsis,the silence from any independant experts in support of the prosecution experts is defening.anyone from italy the british company that pioneered lcn testing none of these have uttered a word publicly
    raffaela was not at the computer when he said he was
    are you joking me the police fried amandas raffaela and philomenia hard drives.IN a fair court i think the police would be trying to keep computer evidence out of this case
    raffaela called 112 after the police arrived
    a postal police officer stated in evidence he arrived at 12.35 he knew because he looked at his watch.he also said in evidence he broke down the door to amandas room but did not enter.one of amandas and merridiths roomates standing behind him said he broke down the door entered the room lifted the cover of the body and looked at it.his superviser stated that the car was not sent out until 12.46 phone records prove that raffaela called the police at 12.51.to a reasnoble court telling lies comes very easy to this postal police officer
    amanda implicated an innocent man,and did not retract this for two weeks
    up to this point the police had taped everything and suddenly all tapes were turned off.ask anyone who understands torture and they will tell you that the tortured person will always tell you what you want them to tell you,a police officer from rome testified to hearing amanda screaming during this time,it probally did not take much just the two slaps at the back of the head done,amanda was a long way from home and probally was pretty easily frightened amanda did not know mumumba was innocent she was not in the cottage that night she had no way of knowing the police had not got this part of the investigation right
    the bloddy footprint
    I dont think the prosecution are even claiming that now
    having repeated all that now discredited evidence although you left out the bit about the prosecuter now being a convicted planter of evidence and master phone tapper he is probally not to bad at getting rid of evidence that does not suit his interests.the papers are no longer running this story,i wonder have they anything to fear if amanda was aquitted having so savagely slandered her and contributed to this misscarriage of justice.
    I was watching sky news this morning italy has slipped back into recession and is in a group of countries in most financial difficulty after greece in the eec.goverments fall in this kind of situation they will be hoping for a good tourist season and for exports to grow again.i just wonder what support amanda knox has got in the us.maybe not enough to start a campaign to ask us citizens not to visit italy while they are holding her hostage also maybe not enough to see italyian imports left unloaded in us docks.i think films will shortly be made about the italian rape of amanda knox,and you never just know how inflamed oppinion might become

  • John Winters

    Inavest says:

    ”In the end it will be the power of the evidence presented in court (or the lack thereof) that will determine the outcome, not the public outcry from people across the ocean.”

    You keep insisting on this point to do with the amount of evidence. Colonelhall too, regularly posts with expressions like ”mountains of evidence.”

    What does this mean? Does it mean that in Italy, if I can produce 1000′s of pages of writing which say that someone I know saw you at Pier 39 last night, and that an ice cream cone with your DNA on it was found in the vicinity; and that when asked about where you were yesterday evening, you were unable to come up with an adequate answer because the hard drives on your computer had been destroyed. And if I took 1000′s of pages to write these few things down dilatorily, the fact that I could produce 1000′s of pages of writing about what you were doing last night would be enough to see you convicted of any crime I fancied pinning on you.

    Because that’s what it sounds like. You people seem to be more impressed by the seeming majesty of the all-powerful judges and the impressive-sounding titles of their offices, together with the large files of waffle they produce about what two people did one evening, than anything which sounds like it really has body or material or intellectual worth.

    If I undid you at one end, would you deflate with a rude noise?

  • Where oh where?

    Actually, Ivs, I wasn’t speaking of the Knox trial, nor was I being sarcastic. I understand what you are saying, but Al seems so down. I don’t have the same way with words that some of you have, but I’ll just say what I have to say and then you can all call me stupid.

    What I was trying to say, if the guilty/innocent percentage was reversed would the judges be looking at the evidence in a little different way. I do realize judges shouldn’t take into account public opinion when making a decision, but if a majority of the public polled felt like the friend was innocent, would the judges take a closer look to see if this opinion had any merit? Al seems to have given up on proving his friend is innocent.

  • IVSTITIA

    Still going at it, uh? Well, for the benefit of clarification in order to get acquitted Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito don’t need 100% of the 8 panel judges and jurors. I guess it doesn’t work like down-under. They need 4 of them (if there is a tie 4-4, the verdict which prevails is the one that is more favorable to the defendant, therefore they’d be acquitted). The votes are cast, one by one, by the jurors first in order of age (starting from the youngest). The President of the court votes last, after the other professional judge (the Giudice a Latere, or side judge). Nevertheless the two professional judges tend to lead the panel in their direction, therefore it’s rare that the jurors go against the 2 professional judges. Some do, especially in Appeal, when the panel of jurors have people with higher education degrees, especially the younger jurors (who must be at least 30 y.o.). Of course in the first trial that didn’t help. The youngest juror was a 35 year old lawyer, but he also went along with the judges’ theory (lawyers serving in juries in Italy are the only ones who very often challenge the judges). The reality is that the evidence against AK/RS is not as weak as you’d like to portray in these blogs. Hearing from experts that there is DNA of the victim in RS’ knife, watching a Powerpoint presentation from an expert who shows how a bloody footprint matches’ RS’ foot, hearing a computer expert who says RS was not at the computer when he said he was, or being presented phone records that show that RS called 112 after the police already arrived, and of course hearing that Amanda implicated an innocent man, and didn’t retract that false accusation for 2 weeks after his arrest, are all very powerful elements in the eye of a jury.

    Regarding the attempts, made in these blogs to sway public opinion, my question is: whose public opinion? Most people in Perugia believe they are guilty (3 out of 4 according to an admittedly non scientific newspaper poll at the time of the verdict) and were pleased with the verdict (although many thought the sentence was too short). But now nobody talks about this case in Italy anymore. You can’d find an article in the newspaper about it, not even in the “Corriere dell’Umbria” or in the local Umbria pages of “La Nazione”, the Florence daily which serves primarily Tuscany and Umbria. So, if the intent is to sway public opinion in Italy in order for them to apply pressure on the judges, it’s obviously not working. In the end, if AK and RS are acquitted it won’t be because of the public sentiment of the people, but rather because the appeal judges themselves (the two professional ones especially) believe they’re innocent based on the evidence. The PR effort, in my opinion, is more to move American public sentiment so that pressure is applied to US politicians to intercede with Italian authorities. But would it work in a country where magistrates are so independent and autonomous from political interference. I don’t know, but I doubt it. In the end it will be the power of the evidence presented in court (or the lack thereof) that will determine the outcome, not the public outcry from people across the ocean.

    PS: Enzo Zoff, are you related to Dino Zoff? The famous former goalkeeper of the Italian National soccer team? For sure with a last name like Zoff, your relatives must have been from the region of Friuli. probably from the province of Gorizia. Enjoy Sydney mate! I was there a couple of months ago and I loved it, Darling Harbour, Circular Quay and all.

  • Where oh where?

    Enzo, I know you don’t think public opinion could sway the judges but what if the innocent/guilt ratio was the other way? What if 90% of the public thought your friend was innocent?

  • Mary H.

    It sounds extremely challenging, to say the least. It also sounds different from Amanda’s predicament in a lot of ways, so I can see why you don’t think the same approach the pro-Amanda-ites are taking would work for your friend.

    Does your friend have a chance? Are his lawyers any good? Does Australia have a branch of the Innocence Project?

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “Many times, the only thing that gets the judges to reconsider old evidence is public pressure.”

    The appeal process is automatic in Italy: ALL evidence is reconsidered as a matter of course, subject to the efficacy of the defence; what additional public pressure did you need?

    “Amanda will be acquitted on the exact same “evidence” that got her convicted. Only this time, more people will be paying attention.”

    Perhaps. But if you look at Guede’s appeal there was very, very little that was allowed to be re-opened. Good luck.

    “We simply have a lot more people making noise.”

    Yes, very true. But, remember, you heard it first from me!

    Let me tell you this about public dynamics that my friend learned from his experience. Let’s call him, GTI.

    To GTI, what the public felt about him was so important to him. During the 70 day odd trial, random people would wave to him, cheer him, greet him at every public opportunity. He would say to me how great it felt to have the public on side. And I would reply: 40,50,100 people a public does not make!

    The day after he was convicted, to EVERY BODIES surprise, talk-back radio, TV and newspaper opinion polls showed a staggering 90/10% ratio for right/wrong verdict.

    3 learned Judges; that’s what it comes down to for an acquittal. AND, it MUST be 3-0; 2-1 will not do.

    So, if you know of a PR firm that can guarantee a 3-0 return, let me know.

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “I can’t imagine why you would ever have taken the anti-Amanda side. And don’t even TRY to tell me you didn’t.”

    Well, I don’t want to disappoint you so I WILL try; I A_M N_O_T A_N_T_I_Amanda!

    I have openly, sincerely and genuinely disclosed my position, thoughts and feelings, but, it’s NOT anti_Amanda. I have shared with you that I have 2 daughters of my own. The eldest was in Italy in 2008 on a exchange scholarship and I have stated that for the grace of God – there go I.

    As a parent, I FEEL for the Knoxs/Sollecitos and even the Guedes. Even more for the Kerchners.

    You will have to choose to believe me on this – or not.

    But, when I sit at my desk, around a dinner table, a BBQ on even in a queue at a bank and I hear people discussing my friend and his plight I listen with detachment. They speak crap, because they don’t know any better.

    Sometimes I interject, sometimes I don’t. Some actually care about the true facts; others made their minds a long time ago, not to . None of them, so far, will be the presiding on the Bench of Criminal Appeal . Thank God for that !

    It is for this reason that I am NOT bothered as to their posture. It means swat as to getting an acquittal. Our objective is to sow the seeds of truth, the facts as were presented in Court and not the edited 1 minute clip that ALWAYS portrayed my friend in a bad light.

    ALL members of the jury had been subjected to and engulfed with negative portrayals for 12 YEARS ! The jury was NOT sequestrated here either; and on ALL evening news bulletins there he was virtually ridiculed one paragraph this side of defamation.

    And, get this, the initial jury was DISQUALIFIED after 4 days because 3 of the jurors had ALREADY decided that he was guilty and were LITERALLY terrorising the other 9 into submission. On day 4, one of the jurors rang a radio talk-back and confessed what was happening.

    Mary H: ” …. tutto il mondo e paese” [ e = is]

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    And against that backdrop, Enzo, with your friend’s experience, I can’t imagine why you would ever have taken the anti-Amanda side. And don’t even TRY to tell me you didn’t.

    You wrote: “No-one, but no-one has ever been released from prison due to the loudeness of their vocal chords. They have been released when the evidince, new or old, is so overwhelming that the Court amends the conviction.”

    I must disagree. Many times, the only thing that gets the judges to reconsider old evidence is public pressure. Amanda will be acquitted on the exact same “evidence” that got her convicted. Only this time, more people will be paying attention.

    Maybe one of the difficulties you and your friends have had has to do with the fact that the whole country of Australia has fewer people than the state of Texas. We simply have a lot more people making noise.

    You also wrote: “But your biggest problem is that you have allowed this to become ‘personal’.”

    Not a problem; an asset.

    “In Italy it was just another murder case…”

    Absolutely false.

    “You have managed to piss the italians [not only] off big time.”

    So what?

    And of course, this dilly:

    “I made NO reference to the K/S case.”

    Closely followed by:

    “And yet, like the FOA, we too lobbied for justice.”

    Ultimately, I am really sorry about your friend. I know what it’s like to fight an uphill battle, believe me. In all seriousness (is that a word?), have you thought about hiring a PR firm?

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    you cite:

    “This argument always slays me. First of all, let us note that no one has been “slandered” except Amanda and Raffaele.”

    I could post a comment about the mating rituals of the west congon pygmies and you would find a way to connect it to Amanda.

    I made NO reference to the K/S case. I was merely pointing out to Al the irony that I personally have my ‘own’ K/S and on some level I can understand your stance, your point of view, your position.

    “Second, the essence of this argument is exactly the same as an abuser saying to his victim, “I wouldn’t have to beat you if you would behave.” Is this what you advise, Enzo — that everyone sit down and shut up? Somehow I doubt that will change the judges’ minds.”

    Is this what I said? The essence of my message is that it’s pointless changing the tyres if you have a flat battery. Changing the tyres will not get the car going; the problem is the battery. You need a new battery.

    In my own personal sitiuation with my friend, we’re not going to get him released by crtizing the Prosecutor; or critizing the Australian legal framework with its own problems; or jumping up and down critizing the media.

    And, the media had 12 uninterrupted years of portraying my friend as gigolo, with no morals, selfish, promiscuous, lazy. They followed him to the UK, France, Swiss, Italy and the US.

    When that wasn’t enough, they made a tele-movie attacked his sexuality by alluding he was bisexual and scripted him as they wanted.

    At least your Amanda has been spared bisexuality.

    “Enzo — that everyone sit down and shut up? Somehow I doubt that will change the judges’ minds.”

    No-one, but no-one has ever been released from prison due to the loudeness of their vocal chords. They have been released when the evidince, new or old, is so overwhelming that the Court amends the conviction.

    You take the view, that if you shout long and loud enough, if you make enough ‘noise’ that if you can sway public opinion that the the Italian Appeal judges will wake up one sunny morning as let K/S out.

    You wanna believe this honey, than, do.

    I tell you what will get them out; legal arguement and evidence. It’s no more different for my friend than it is for K/S or Italy, Aussie, US or UK.

    But your biggest problem is that you have allowed this to become ‘personal’. In Italy it was just another murder case; in fact, public opinion leaned to K. You have managed to piss the italians [not only] off big time.

    Imagine, can you, the opposite. Can you imagine had an italian judge written to his counter-part in the US demanding this and that?

    Lastly, my situation is light compared to yours in some respects; there was NO physical/DNA to contest, there were No eyewitnesses that place him at the crime scene, there was a motive proposed, but the sentencing Judge overturned it at the sentencing hearing.

    There was EVIDENCE that his girlfriend has attempted suicide before; that they were happy; that she had gone to the doctor for depression; that she had missed an appointment with the psychiatrist that day.

    And yet, he was found guilty. And, unlike the italian system no 104 pages of explanation as to why.

    against that back drop, I admit I don’t envy your position.

    But, hey, good luck, God speed and let’s see what the judgement says. You won’t know what to do when you get it …

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Enzoff wrote: “So what f***king use is there is slandering the Prosecutor?… So what f***king use is there is slandering the justice system?… So what f***king use is there is slandering the jury?… So what f***king use is there is slandering the media?… Why would you antagonise the very people who have the power to release you?”

    This argument always slays me. First of all, let us note that no one has been “slandered” except Amanda and Raffaele.

    Second, the essence of this argument is exactly the same as an abuser saying to his victim, “I wouldn’t have to beat you if you would behave.” Is this what you advise, Enzo — that everyone sit down and shut up? Somehow I doubt that will change the judges’ minds.

    Ironically, Mignini got exactly what he wanted by slandering and misbehaving. Basically by making a lot of noise.

    “Ultimately, we could have 99.99% of the public opinion, but if 3 guys in funny robes and with stupid wigs on, don’t agree, it don’t mean a cracker!”

    Don’t tell the media that. They got Amanda into prison and they will get her out.

  • Mary H.

    Al-F. Y., I’m glad to know this has all been a lark for you. I’m sure Amanda and Raffaele find it one big joke, too.

    “(I think [Ivstitia's] pseudonym on that site is Commissario or something like that).”

    That makes sense. He must be baleno, as well? Or is that you, too?

    When you guys leave, the anti-Amanda side will be down to Enzo, Harry Rag (who also has at least three pseudonyms) and colonelhall.

    Who was it last night who wrote, “As the number of people who know Amanda is innocent increases…”? Oh, that was me!

  • Mary H.

    Enzoff wrote: “Given your stance on dedication an commitment to ruth, justice and the american way it will seem very parochial to just limit your fight just on amanda.

    You have also stated on record that the italian judiciary needs to be discussed within the context of the Knox case and i feel that perhaps your failure to incorporate Bindelli might be interpreted as insular. What do you think ?”

    I think getting involved in the Bindelli case makes as much sense as the Amanda-haters getting involved in the Kercher case. I have absolutely no relationship whatsoever to him or to Sonia Marra or to anyone connected with them. If someone I know were to ask me to look into it for his or her legitimate personal reasons, I would consider it.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John Winters:

    here’s Jooohhhnnnyyy:

    “One down, three to go!”

    ?????? …. what?

    after all this time you’re only on first base?

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Al-Fakh Yugoudh:

    “Hope Amanda rots in jail for much longer, that murderer!”

    Capisco !

    But, I don’t believe that you want Amanda to rot in jail, really?

    When you post comments like that you serve their cause and diminish yours; that’s where they get ‘AmandaHaters and lately it’s been diluted to ‘Anti-Amanda”.

    Remember, it could have been your sister, cousin, daughter or friend … you and I would probably have done the same whatever the cost and effort.

    Mate, you want o now what the irony is? I actually have a very close friend in jail for murder serving 13 years convicted for pushing his girlfriend of a cliff.

    13 years later, they arrested him!

    No DNA, no witnesses, motive was quashed by the judge, found guilty on NOTHING !

    In 1994, when they found her body it was at point A on the rocks of the ocean. 12 years LATER the point of impact was MOVED about 4.5 metres further out to sea rendering the initial suicide theory impossible, said the police.

    Who moved the point of impact?
    The police !

    On what basis?
    They realised, 12 years later, they had made a mistake !

    What prompted the correction?
    Don’t know, just did?

    The Prosecutor, has been involved in some of most controversial murder cases in Sydney. He was cautioned by the High Court over his conduct.

    Mate, this guy makes Mignini look like a lamb.

    His appeal has just been lodged with the courts to be heard later this year.

    And yet, like the FOA, we too lobbied for justice. Except, that his appeal will be heard by 3 judges and to be acquitted it has to be 3-0 his way.

    So what f***king use is there is slandering the Prosecutor? Zilch !!!
    Actually, we go out of our way to point out that he was just doing his job!

    So what f***king use is there is slandering the judicial system? Zilch !!!
    Why woud you antagonise the very people who have the power to release you? And besides, it wasn’t the Prosecutor or the Judge that handed down the verdict, it was the jury!

    So what f***king use is there is slandering the jury? Zilch !
    They’re long gone and again it just antagonises the public, the very people you want on side!

    So what f***king use is there is slandering the media, who had 12 years of hype, untruths, fabricated stories, sex, and murder wrapped up in a tele-movie? Zilch -’coz the media cuts both ways – if it’s on your side, it’s great!

    We actually use these blogs as an educational tool as to what NOT to do; on radio and TV interviews our mantra is NOT to engage in debate; merely present the facts as we see them, then quickly walk away.

    Don’t ever try and sell a point of view, instead, enrol the listener. Ultimately, we could have 99.99% of the public opinion, but if 3 guys in funny robes and with stupid wigs on, don’t agree, it don’t mean a cracker!

    You are left with the distinct impression by their posts, that it’s an act on American Idol; you know, everyone will phone in with their vote as to whether Amanda is innocent to not.

    Although, I wish we had the numerous ghost writers under the user name Mary H and JW [ my personal favorite] …

    Anyway, Marcch 4,5, 6 – the judgement will be handed down and I guess we’ll see them in action again …

    dixi

    Prosecutor? Zilch !!!

  • John Winters

    One down, three to go!

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    hey Enzo Zoff and Colonelhall! I think’m leaving you alone guys to fight the battle for truth and justice against the FOAkers in this blog. I’m kind of tired of this Amanda Knox stuff. Everybody is writing the same BS every day now. I think I’ll move on to troll on some other topic. IVSTITIA, who got me interested into this Amanda b.s. (we are actually friends, both Tuscans in California) is on a business trip right now. So maybe when he comes back he’ll give you some advice on the legal ramifications. He studied law in Italy, so he knows more than me. What I know is from my short Carabinieri training during my military service. Actually I think he’s going to write some more articles on law on truejustice maybe when the judge report comes out. Keep an eye on his writings, they are more informative than the FOAkers’ (I think his pseudonym on that site is Commissario or something like that).
    Anyway. Once in a while if I’m bored and feel like coming to insult billy and Johnny, “mabey” I’ll make a quick stop.
    Ciao ciao guys. Hope Amanda rots in jail for much longer, that murderer!

  • John Winters

    colonelhall

    ”I don’t know, if there is anyone reading this stuff anymore, but if there is, I think that Harry is doing a great job. Better to read something relevant to the case than a whole lot of insults going back and forth endlessly.”

    I don’t know if I have read you correctly but if I have, what is so great about being retarded by someone?
    Maybe you think we really should go and lick our elbows in which case you must think discussing this case is very boring. We are the only people who are going to discuss it I’m afraid. So why do you keep coming back here?

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    ” I’m happy to see the genius of Billy Ryan is inspiring you to become ever more creative.”

    yes, indeed.

    billyryan, is a riot.

    Makes, my day along with John ‘here’s Joooohhhnnnnyyyy” Winters; it just doesn’t get any better than this, does it?

    dixi

  • John Winters

    Al-fhak says:

    ”Q. Most boat owners
    name their boats. What is the most popular boat name
    requested?

    A.
    Obsession”

    I think this one more than any of the others proves that the veracity of these snippets should be doubted.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “I don’t intend to neglect you, Enzo!”

    Hey, sweetie, thanks. Unfortunately, the time difference between our countries get’s in the way and so it seems I tend to miss the traffic.

    ” If you are actually going to look at those websites, you are gonna get quite a bit smarted up. I can’t wait to be impressed.”

    you’re not kidding! I started with yours, Italian Woman at the Table and I was immediately intimidated. A good portion of your links were in italian! So you can imagine my panic.

    “I am not interested in that other case.”

    I’m very disappointed; I thick you should really reconsider my proposal. Really.
    Given your stance on dedication an commitment to ruth, justice and the american way it will seem very parochial to just limit your fight just on amanda.

    You have also stated on record that the italian judiciary needs to be discussed within the context of the Knox case and i feel that perhaps your failure to incorporate Bindelli might be interpreted as insular. What do you think ?

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    ” ….. or can be invalidated with logic and reason (19 judges agreed? So what? As I wrote before, the Ku Klux Klan all agree).”

    This is truly powerful stuff …..

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Hi colonehall. I am still reading. Actually, it was John Winters who made the comment you quoted. And I think we were just having some fun earlier today; I for one, did not feel insulted.

    Well, Harry has been persistent, I’ll give him that. It’s just that most of what he writes is so outdated that his opponents don’t even bother to refute it anymore; it just takes up too much room on the page.

    For example, he wrote: “1. On the double DNA knife and a number of independent forensic experts – Dr. Patrizia Stenoni, Dr. Renato Biondo and Professor Francesca Torricelli – categorically stated that Meredith’s DNA was on the blade.”

    Well, yeah, those were all people who worked for the prosecution, which immediately throws their statement into doubt. There are MORE people, with higher qualifications, who “categorically” say otherwise. I have provided citations and their names on several occasions and several blogs, but Harry and his ilk just keep on truckin’. They choose to ignore the truth, it’s as simple as that.

    I find it alarming that people read what he writes and don’t question it. Is Barbie Nadeau’s phrase, “Countless forensic experts…have testified” good enough for you? Of course they’re not countless. If they testified, then we know their names, ergo, they can be counted.

    Countless is just a word intended to make it sound like more people think she is guilty than actually do. Two young people’s lives are on the line here — why is it okay to be so casual and so careless?

    The rest of what Harry writes is either blatantly false (“Amanda Knox voluntarily admitted”), (“despite three attempts each”), or can be invalidated with logic and reason (19 judges agreed? So what? As I wrote before, the Ku Klux Klan all agree).

    As the number of people who know Amanda is innocent increases, Harry and his pals will get more desperate, I guess, but Amanda’s supporters don’t have to work as hard as we once did.

  • colonelhall

    Mary “Problem is, new readers who are interested in the case will believe that some or any of it is still relevant and the rest of us (interestingly in terms of the ongoing discussions on these boards, including people like Al-Fhak and Enzo Zoff!), will be effectively retarded.”

    You’ve got that bit right!

    I don’t know, if there is anyone reading this stuff anymore, but if there is, I think that Harry is doing a great job. Better to read something relevant to the case than a whole lot of insults going back and forth endlessly.

  • jim

    mary h u are a typical american thats is ignorant and ofcourse supporter of a butcher woman. dont be so excited she the all american charming sociopath ain’t comin back till she hits the middle age.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    VERY
    INTERESTING STUFF

    In the
    1400′s a law was set forth in England that a man was allowed
    to beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb.
    Hence we have ‘the rule
    of thumb’

    ——— ——— ——— —-

    Many years ago in
    Scotland , a new game was invented. It was ruled ‘Gentlemen
    Only…Ladies Forbidden’.. .and thus, the word GOLF entered
    into the English language.

    ——— ——— ——— —-

    The first couple to
    be shown in bed together on prime time TV was Fred and Wilma
    Flintstone.

    ——— ——— ——— —-

    Every day more money
    is printed for Monopoly than the U.S.
    Treasury.

    – ———— ——— ——–

    Men can read smaller
    print than women can; women can hear better.

    ——— ——— ——— —-

    Coca-Cola was
    originally green.

    ——— ——— ——— —-

    It is impossible to lick
    your elbow.

    ——— ——— ——— —-

    The State with the
    highest percentage of people who walk to work:

    Alaska

    ——— ——— ——— —-

    The percentage of
    Africa that is wilderness: 28% (now get
    this…)

    ——— ——— ——— —-

    The percentage of
    North America that is wilderness: 38%

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    The cost of raising
    a medium-size dog to the age of eleven:

    $ 16,400

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    The average number
    of people airborne over the U.S. in any given
    hour:

    61,000

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Intelligent people
    have more zinc and copper in their hair..

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    The first novel ever
    written on a typewriter, Tom Sawyer.

    – ———— ——— ——— ——— ———

    The San Francisco
    Cable cars are the only mobile National
    Monuments.

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Each king in a deck
    of playing cards represents a great king from history:

    Spades – King David

    Hearts – Charlemagne

    Clubs -Alexander,
    the Great

    Diamonds – Julius
    Caesar

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    111,111,111 x
    111,111,111 = 12,345,678,987, 654,321

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    If a statue in the
    park of a person on a horse has both front legs in the air,
    the person died in battle. If the horse has one front leg in
    the air, the person died because of wounds received in battle.
    If the horse has all four legs on the ground, the person died
    of natural causes

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Only two people
    signed the Declaration of Independence on July 4, John Hancock
    and Charles Thomson. Most of the rest signed on August 2, but
    the last signature wasn’t added until 5 years later.

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Q. Half of all
    Americans live within 50 miles of what?

    A. Their birthplace

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Q. Most boat owners
    name their boats. What is the most popular boat name
    requested?

    A.
    Obsession

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Q.. If you were to
    spell out numbers, how far would you have to go until you
    would find the letter ‘A’?

    A. One
    thousand

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Q. What do
    bulletproof vests, fire escapes, windshield wipers and laser
    printers have in common?

    A. All were invented
    by women.

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Q. What is the only
    food that doesn’t spoil?

    A.
    Honey

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Q. Which day are
    there more collect calls than any other day of the
    year?

    A. Father’s
    Day

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    In Shakespeare’s
    time, mattresses were secured on bed frames by ropes.
    When you pulled on the ropes, the mattress tightened,
    making the bed firmer to sleep on. Hence the
    phrase…’Goodnight , sleep tight’

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    It was the accepted
    practice in Babylon 4,000 years ago that for a month after the
    wedding, the bride’s father would supply his son-in-law with
    all the mead he could drink… Mead is a honey beer and because
    their calendar was lunar based, this period was called the
    honey month, which we know today as the honeymoon.

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    In English pubs, ale
    is ordered by pints and quarts… So in old England , when
    customers got unruly, the bartender would yell at them ‘Mind
    your pints and quarts, and settle down.’

    It’s where we get
    the phrase ‘mind your P’s and Q’s’

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Many years ago in
    England , pub frequenters had a whistle baked into the rim, or
    handle, of their ceramic cups. When they needed a refill ,
    they used the whistle to get some service. ‘Wet your whistle’
    is the phrase inspired by this practice.

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    At least 75% of
    people who read this will try to lick their
    elbow!

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    Don’t delete this
    just because it looks weird. Believe it or not, you can read
    it.

    I cdnuolt blveiee
    taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The
    phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at
    Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the
    ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the
    first and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a
    taotl mses and you can still raed it wouthit a porbelm. This
    is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by
    istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?

    ——— ——— ——— ——— ——— ———

    YOU
    KNOW YOU ARE LIVING IN 2009 when…

    1. You accidentally
    enter your PIN on the microwave..

    2. You haven’t
    played solitaire with real cards in years.

    3. You have a list
    of 15 phone numbers to reach your family of
    three.

    4. You e-mail the
    person who works at the desk next to you.

    5. Your reason for
    not staying in touch with friends and family is that they
    don’t have e-mail addresses.

    6. You pull up in
    your own driveway and use your cell phone to see if anyone is
    home to help you carry in the groceries.

    7. Every commercial
    on television has a web -site at the bottom of the screen.

    8.. Leaving the house
    without your cell phone, which you didn’t even have the first
    20 or 30 (or 60) years of your life, is now a cause for panic
    and you turn around to go and get it.

    10. You get up in
    the morning and go on-line before getting your
    coffee

    11. You start
    tilting your head sideways to smile. : )

    12 You’re reading
    this and nodding and laughing.

    13. Even worse, you
    know exactly to whom you are going to forward this
    message.

    14. You are too busy
    to notice there was no #9 on this list.

    15. You actually
    scrolled back up to check that there wasn’t a #9 on this
    list

    ~~~~~~~~~~~AND
    FINALLY~~~~~ ~~~~~~~

    NOW U R LAUGHING at
    yourself.

    Go on, forward this
    to your friends. You know you want to! Go lick your
    elbow.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Since most of you will be boycotting Italy in the near future when Amanda gets convicted in appeal, and also since most of you are so f.ing poor and stupid that couldn’t afford to travel outside of Seattle anyway, I’ll give you a tour of something in Rome. I’m sure Amanda will have a chance to visit some of these in a few years when they release her on probation.
    PS: I don’t know if you know but the Italian politicians are thinking of letting inmates spend their last two years of prison at home in a sort of house arrests with some bonus permits. Just to relieve the crowded prisons.

    Ok here is the tour that you guys would be boycotting if only you could afford to go to Italy in the first place.

    INSTRUCTIONS: After you link on the site below and select an image and it appears, then
    HOLD DOWN THE LEFT MOUSE BUTTON AND SLOWLY MOVE THE CURSOR AROUND THE ROOM. THEN CLOSE THE WINDOW AND START OVER. CLOSE BY CLICKING ON THE UPPER LEFT CORNER ARROW. BE SURE TO USE THE MOUSE WHEEL TO ZOOM IN.

    http://www.vatican.va/various/basiliche/san_giovanni/vr_tour/index-en.html

    INSTRUCTIONS: After you link on the site below and select an image and it appears, then
    HOLD DOWN THE LEFT MOUSE BUTTON AND SLOWLY MOVE THE CURSOR AROUND THE ROOM. THEN CLOSE THE WINDOW AND START OVER. CLOSE BY CLICKING ON THE UPPER LEFT CORNER ARROW. BE SURE TO USE THE MOUSE WHEEL TO ZOOM IN.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Mary H. said
    am February 10 2010 @ 7:22 pm
    Al-Fakh Yuinmidreems wrote: “I’ve never seen Mary H. in person but her posts in this blog make me want to bang her at night.”

    Only at night?”

    IN CASE YOU LOOK LIKE CANDASS DUMPSAY I DON’T HAVE TO SEE YOUR FACE IN THE DARK.

  • Mary H.

    I don’t intend to neglect you, Enzo! If you are actually going to look at those websites, you are gonna get quite a bit smarted up. I can’t wait to be impressed.

    You wrote: “They point out Raffaele never met Rudy….Babe, are you sure? … coz there’s a You Tube clip of Amanda giving testimony in Court, stating that she and S had indeed met in the Piazza before.”

    Your second paragraph doesn’t match your first. Amanda and Raffaele met in the Piazza; Rudy and Raffaele didn’t.

    You also wrote: “All of this by his own admission…. Did we ever find out if Rudy was beaten by he Police?”

    No, I don’t think we did. They really had no reason to beat him; they already had ironclad evidence against him. They tend only to beat girls who can’t remember their place in Mignini’s fantasy.

    I don’t have a blog; I am not Candace Dempsey. I have no doubt she has better things to do than be here, preparing her book for publication next month. Deadlines, you know! Also, if she didn’t want to read any “antis” on her own site, she certainly is not going to deliberately seek them out in the blogs.

    I am not interested in that other case.

  • Mary H.

    I think Harry’s getting tired, John. I don’t see him around nearly as much as before, although, admittedly, I don’t go to very many blogs.

    He might be devoting his time to the youtube videos they’re bragging about on truejustice these days. Perhaps he realized that many of his constituents were more likely to be brainwashed by TV than by the written word. Also, he has so much time on his hands, he probably decided to vary his projects.

  • John Winters

    Mary H wrote:

    ”Harry Rag wrote: “Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah”

    Surely you lot have realised that this particular post that begins with the ”overwhelming evidence” introduction is a paste job that la grande bore Harry Rag has pasted numerous times before to numerous blogs.

    Problem is, new readers who are interested in the case will believe that some or any of it is still relevant and the rest of us (interestingly in terms of the ongoing discussions on these boards, including people like Al-Fhak and Enzo Zoff!), will be effectively retarded.

  • Gary

    God help us all if you look like Magnini.

  • Mary H.

    God help me if I look like Mignini. :D

  • Gary

    Mary as long as you dont look like Magnini your alright in my book

  • Gary

    Mary; What it’s ok sweety.

  • Mary H.

    Gary wrote: “that shit was funny as hell about you wanting to bang Mary”

    What the — !?!

  • Mary H.

    Harry Rag wrote: “Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah:

    1. Blah
    2. Blah
    3. BLah
    4. Blah
    5. Blah
    6. Blah
    7. Blah

    Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.”

  • Mary H.

    Al-Fakh Yuinmidreems wrote: “I’ve never seen Mary H. in person but her posts in this blog make me want to bang her at night.”

    Only at night?

  • Gary

    Ok that shit was funny as hell about you wanting to bang Mary H. We need some humor once and awhile to break no monotony. On the other hand Amanda is definitely my type; although the herpes on her lip sort of turned me off. I think Mary H. is also a hotty even though I have never seen her, but I would still like to take a dip in her swimming pool. ROTFLMFAO. Only joking Mary.

  • Mary H.

    You guys are making me laugh so hard I can hardly write. I’m happy to see the genius of Billy Ryan is inspiring you to become ever more creative. You know I love you, Billy, but you have to admit some of the zingers they came up with are pretty funny, including the new name given to you by Al-fake dog_shite. The ones about going out to work the land and wearing the all-white uniform made me laugh in spite of myself.

    Nevertheless, it is always Billy who can boil the subject down to its pith, i.e., “your wank fantasy every night.” That indeed is why most fellows follow the case.

    “dogshite and harry rag will retreat up their own arse in 2010 and disapear and ye will leave mignini to stand alone.” ROFL!

    Billy wrote: “Films will soon be made the italian defamanation laws wont save mignini when film makers in the us get to work,he is already an international hate figure,he will be portrayed in films as the lowest most reviled human being possible”

    Truer words were never spoken. We Americans love our human villains even more than we love monsters and aliens.

  • billyryan

    gudge g massei has to explain how he rejected the defence dna experts and accepted fully the prosecution dna experts theory that merridiths dna was on the knife blade,that the collecting of the bra clasp after 47 days and the selective identifing of dna on it.he has to explain to the world how a fair judge took the word of a homeless man an in jail drugpusher who only came forward a year later that amanda was near the house,international experts have rubbished the prosecution dna evidence,the silence is deffening from dna experts in italy and abroad in support of the prosecution dna evidence,this case is now the greatest show on earth books have been written.Films will soon be made the italian defamanation laws wont save mignini when film makers in the us get to work,he is already an international hate figure,he will be portrayed in films as the lowest most reviled human being possible,the man who faces the next most criticall analsis is judge g massei,but he has one thing mignini hasent he has twenty two days to save himself from international ridicule.dogshite and harry rag will retreat up their own arse in 2010 and disapear and ye will leave mignini to stand alone.If massei is smart he will use the next twenty two days to save himself from the faith that surely awaits mignini

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billiterateryanus said:
    “..after march Amanda is released for the duration of the apeals.i wonder would that ruin your wank fantasy every night”

    First of all I don’t know how she could be considered not a flight risk after March, since she was considered so by all pre-trial judges, including at the Supreme court. At most they might concede her some form of house arrests, maybe in a local rehab community for drug addicts or recovering prostitutes.

    Her release while awaiting the appeals wouldn’t ruin my fantasy at all. As I said I don’t even care if she’s released and let go back to Seattle tomorrow.

    Besides Amanda is not even my type. My type is Mary H. I’ve never seen Mary H. in person but her posts in this blog make me want to bang her at night. I hope she’s not Candass Dumpsee, that would definitely be a disappointment.

  • billyryan

    al_fake_dogshite i am not from a third world country.i wonder do most of italy think amanda is guilty.the judge has to explain the guilty verdict and this he can not reasnobly do,one thing i must say for mignini by the skillfull use of his power and the defamation laws he is slowing up the release of truth in this case.fair enough so lets say after march amanda is no longer a flight risk and is released for the duration of the apeals.i wonder would that ruin your wank fantasy every night

  • Harry Rag

    The evidence against Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito is overwhelming.

    Amanda Knox’s DNA was found on:

    1. On the double DNA knife and a number of independent forensic experts – Dr. Patrizia Stenoni, Dr. Renato Biondo and Professor Francesca Torricelli – categorically stated that Meredith’s DNA was on the blade.

    2. Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the ledge of the basin.

    3. Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the bidet.

    4. Mixed with Meredith blood on a box of Q Tip cotton swabs.

    5. Mixed with Meredith’s blood in the hallway.

    6. Mixed with Meredith’s blood on the floor of Filomena’s room, where the break-in was staged.

    7. On Meredith’s bra according to Raffaele Sollecito’s forensic expert, Professor Vinci and Dr. Stefanoni.

    Amanda Knox’s footprints were found set in Meredith’s blood in two places in the hallway of the new wing of the cottage. One print was exiting her own room, and one print was outside Meredith’s room, facing into the room. These bloody footprints were only revealed under luminol.

    A woman’s bloody shoeprint, which matched Amanda Knox’s foot size, was found on a pillow under Meredith’s body. The bloody shoeprint was incompatible with Meredith’s shoe size.

    Two independent imprint experts categorically excluded the possibility that the bloody footprint on the blue bathmat could belong to Rudy Guede. Lorenzo Rinaldi stated: ““You can see clearly that this bloody footprint on the rug does not belong to Mr. Guede, but you can see that it is compatible with Sollecito.”

    The other imprint expert print expert testified that the bloody footprint on the blue bathmat matched the precise characteristics of Sollecito’s foot.

    An abundant amount of Raffaele Sollecito’s DNA was found on Meredith’s bra clasp. Meredith’s bra was removed some time after she had been killed and Rudy Guede had fled the scene.

    The murder dynamic implicates Knox and Sollecito.

    Barbie Nadeau wrote the following:

    “Countless forensic experts, including those who performed the autopsies on Kercher’s body, have testified that more than one person killed her based on the size and location of her injuries and the fact that she didn’t fight back—no hair or skin was found under her fingernails.”

    Judge Paolo Micheli claimed that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito knew precise details about Meredith’s murder that they could have only known if they were present when she was killed.

    Amanda Knox voluntarily admitted that she involved in Meredith’s murder in her handwritten note to the police on 6 November 2007. She stated on at least four separate occasions that she was the cottage when Meredith was killed.

    Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito both gave multiple conflicting alibis and lied repeatedly. Their lies were exposed by telephone and computer records, and by CCTV footage. Neither Knox nor Sollecito have credible alibis for the night of the murder despite three attempt each.

    Legal expert Stefano Maffei stated the following:

    “There were 19 judges who looked at the evidence over the course of two years, faced with decisions on pre-trial detention, review of such detention, committal to trial, judgment on criminal responsibility. They all agreed, at all times, that the evidence was overwhelming.”

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    still on your blog, you talking about Rudy:

    “All of this by his own admission.”

    Did we ever find out if Rudy was beaten by he Police?

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @MAry H:

    You have this on your blog.

    “They point out Raffaele never met Rudy–except in court, never the best place to socialise.”

    Babe, are you sure? … coz there’s a You Tube clip of Amanda giving testimony in Court, stating that she and S had indeed met in the Piazza before.

    I just don’t capisci …

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    Mary H:

    some of the articles on your blog are in ITALIAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    what’s the go ????

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    thanks for the sites. My God there are so many!

    I didn’t know you had your own site! WOW ….

    “You can’t convict somebody of murder if you can’t place them in the murder room.”

    That’s what I thought …. have you got time to help Bindelli out?

    He wasn’t in the room either. They can’t even find the dead body, it’s missing !!!

    Who would steal a dead body? Only in Italy!

    I’m on to it; reading the sites that is ….

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “Sorry, I can’t respond to the issue of Doug Preston’s book, since I haven’t read it. What I can say is that his latest book debuted at the #4 spot on the NY Times Bestsellers List last month.”

    SOMEBODY must think he has integrity.”

    Yeah, it was ME!

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @billyryan:

    :enzo zoff there are classes for those who left school with only limited ability to read and write,mabey you would considder going into adult education for a few years and spare the rest of us your childish jibering.”

    billyryan, I want to go to the same school; you went to; I want to wear an all white uniform too, ok?

    which one was that?

    dixi

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    b.illiterate.ry.anus:
    1-I believe Amanda and Raffaele are guilty, I also believe most people in Italy (including the judges) agree with me, and therefore I believe that there is a good chance they’ll be convicted in appeal as well. However nobody can be sure, and if they are acquitted more power to them. Unlike you, I won’t care one way or the other. You, on the other hand, will be either enthusiastically happy if they’re acquitted or suicidally depressed if not. As a result, you’re in a real bad shape if they are found guilty again.

    2 – Although I cannot be sure about whether they’ll be found guilty or not, I am however very familiar with the average time it takes for trials to take place in Italy and therefore my prediction on the end of the trials are pretty accurate. But you’re right that I’m wrong about you and Amanda going to the same school. You never went to any school. You are just an illiterate peasant from a 3rd world nation.

    3 – Not only are you an illiterate anus, but you’re also totally ignorant about the Italian legal system. Italy does not have a bail system, therefore your assertion that Amanda will be released on bail in March is as stupid as it gets. No Mr. BilliterateRy.anus, there is not such a thing as being released on bail in Italy while the appeals go on. You are either a flight risk, and they keep you in jail, or you are not, and they keep you out of jail. The judges decided Amanda is a flight risk, so she stays in.

    4 – You say that the judge has a chance to regain his credibility. How so? The judge (G. Massei) will not be the judge on the appeal. Once his opinion report is out in March, his work is over with this trial. Your contribution to this topic in this blog is of zero value, because you simply don’t know $HIT about anything. Why don’t you just shut up and go back to work the land with your hoe. It’s almost time to plant your crop, you illiterate peasant!

  • billyryan

    your guess piece _of _dogshite about amanda and i attending the one school is about as accurate as the length of time amanda and raffaela will spend in jail. The world is just giving italy a bit of slack to sort out this misscarrage of justice,the judge who convicted probally knows by now how grave an error he has made,but he still has a chance to regain his credibility,amanda and raffaela will get bail yet in march,and you will be reduced to the nobody you were before this case so excited you

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Yep, Mr. hillbilly: Amanda is not going to get done with the trials before 2013. Unless she gets acquitted at the very next trial, which could end by 2012.

    But I kind of doubt it. Unless there are some major developments, she’s likely to be found guilty in appeal as well, although there is a good chance the appeal court will shave some years off from her sentence at the first trial. Since in Italy, generally inmates who aren’t dangerous criminals or terrorists are released within 12-13 years max, sometime even as early as after 7 years (although she didn’t opt for the abbreviated trial), she could be out as early as 2015 and no later than 2020. Not bad for a psycho murderer like her and Raffaele.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    hillbillyryan: Given the large amount of spelling, punctuation and grammar mistakes you can pack in a single sentence, have you thought that maybe (or should I say ‘mabey’) you’re the one who needs to go back to school? I bet you attended the same school Amanda went to.

  • billyryan

    enzo zoff there are classes for those who left school with only limited ability to read and write,mabey you would considder going into adult education for a few years and spare the rest of us your childish jibering.al_fake_dogshite i see how you have it all worked out how the appeal will drag out until 2113 with amanda still a hostage,and in the worst case scenario for you your saddism will have been satisfied,you were in the carabiniere for 15 months recuited mabey by mignini as the kind of man he needed working with him.i would say dogshite you are cursing your luck over having left the carabiniere,or were you dismissed,just mabey you could have been part of this case,which part of this case do you fantasise about the most”the terrosising of a young girl during her questioning”or”mignini making the case that amanda and raffaela could interfere with the evidence if giving bail”the judge that accepted that is probally finding it hard to sleep,or is it really the thought that you could have been the policeman that seperated a crying and terrified girl from her crying and frightened three sisters and mother,and put her into a prison van for a trip to hell,for a crime you know well she had nothing to do with.the only problem with your pridiction for how this case will pan out in the future,is your belief that amanda wont meet a judge who is not a saddist or terrified of your pal mignini or a piontus piolet and leave it to the next judge to decide,mabey it has already being decided that amanda and raffaela will be given bail in 2010 in the hope that the shame the rape of amanda knox has brought on italy will ease.in any case please give an undertaking to the world that you wont breed

  • Mary H.

    Oh, THAT’S what you wanted me to recommend – the pro-Amanda sites. I thought you wanted me to recommend all the places I usually get my information. Naturally, I thought you were teasing me, as usual, since I get my information from too many sites to be able to list them all, and they are always changing. If you really want to know the names of the pro-Amanda sites (ha ha, as if), here they are:

    Perugia Shock by Frank Sfarzo:
    http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/
    Italian women at the table by Candace Dempsey:
    http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/index.asp
    Friends of Amanda:
    http://www.friendsofamanda.org/
    Anne Bremner:
    http://annebremner.com/Amanda%20Knox.htm
    Free Amanda:
    http://freeamanda.livejournal.com/
    Alternate Theories – Perugia Murder:
    http://alternatetheories-perugiamurder.blogspot.com/
    Mark Waterbury:
    http://www.sciencespheres.com/
    Ray Turner:
    http://knoxarchives.blogspot.com/

    This list is from a non-partisan site that provides descriptions of the cast of characters involved in the case — it’s very informative:
    http://maxlamontagne.blogspot.com/

    As for true obsession, well, let’s just say that if I were obsessed with the truejustice website, I would have mentioned its name on this page at least a hundred times or so, instead of just a few.

    I wouldn’t even say that your use of exclamation points constitutes an obsession, although there certainly are lots and lots of them!!!

    Sorry, I can’t respond to the issue of Doug Preston’s book, since I haven’t read it. What I can say is that his latest book debuted at the #4 spot on the NY Times Bestsellers List last month. SOMEBODY must think he has integrity.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John winters AND Mary H: [Candence, or whoever]

    Here’s Jooohhnnyyyyy:

    Bud, I just visited the TJMK site [phew, I finally found it] and they now got ANOTHER murder case on some italian chick called Sonia Marra?

    Who’s she?

    Anyway, I’m reading this article and it seems to me that it’s more italian police corruption. Very similar to Knox.

    No evidence, no DNA, no eye witnesses; nothing …. and they pin it on this poor sap [another Amanda] Umberto Bindelli!!!!

    Guys, can you help him out?

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @colonelhall:

    “Having read reams about this case, I could see that Preston was ( to be kind ) economical with the truth.”

    I must say that I find that very difficult to believe, knowing the integrity of Preston!

    Mary, please, can you deal with this ? I’m too upset!!!!

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    oh, just realised …

    sorry about the excessive !!! …

    I’m no way as good as billyryan ….

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “I’m sure you would agree that it wouldn’t hurt the anti-Amanda faction to study up on some of the Amanda support sites once in awhile, so they would actually know what they’re talking about for a change.”

    Sweetie,darling gorgeous – I agree with you.

    What a curious little darling is our MAry H [or Candence or whatever]!

    I look to you for ALL the facts on the Knox case. And, when I asked you to nominate what sites you recommend you left me to my own devices !

    And you know how limited I am!!!

    Mary H: what is the true meaning of obsession?

    ” ….. you can’t tell the difference between those two”

    No, I can’t – and so does everyone else ….

    Cheeky,

    MAry, please, take care,

    dixi

    Come on, help me out.

  • Mary H.

    Enzo, like so many, you do not know the meaning of a true obsession (which is not surprising, given your limitations).

    As to the question of periodically visiting tjmk, well, one is not really qualified to discuss this case if one is not as fully informed as possible, eh? I’m sure you would agree that it wouldn’t hurt the anti-Amanda faction to study up on some of the Amanda support sites once in awhile, so they would actually know what they’re talking about for a change.

    As the saying goes, keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.

    “But, isn’t “billyryan” really John ‘here’s Jooohhnnyy’ Winters?”

    If you can’t tell the difference between those two, you are an absolutely terrible judge of character.

  • colonelhall

    Finished “The Monster Of Florence” It had me going for a while. A really good read, which I would recommend to anyone. However, when I got to the afterword regarding the Kercher case, I realised to what extent a writer can be successful at manipulation. Having read reams about this case, I could see that Preston was ( to be kind ) economical with the truth.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Maty H:

    “Al, it’s not like you to miss the point and change the subject so completely. Who do you think you are? Enzo Zoff?”

    oh, Mary, Mary – you’re so sweet. Here I was thinking that you had forgotten me.

    You know, we should agree for me to stop telling the truth about you and you stop telling little furbies about me. But then, you would lose your identity.

    Tell me, Mary, Mary dear, why are you so obssesed with the TJMK site if it replulses you so much? Let it be although; i was hoping to be directed by you to your recommended sites but to no avail.

    Listen, my time is somewhat limited today, so i thought I’d binge on your posts. Loved this one to:

    “I would hate to see the rules of grammar get in the way of billyryan’s originality, creativity and brilliance.”

    But, isn’t “billyryan” really John ‘here’s Jooohhnnyy’ Winters?

    Cheeky,

    you take care now,

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Al, don’t you mean a suntanned guy?

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Amanda and Raffaele are actually both very guilty and there is a real good chance their conviction will be upheld in appeal, and then confirmed by the supreme court. Based on the timing of similar trials in Italy the appeal should be over by the end of 2012 or early 2013. The Supreme court’s sentence usually comes within a year or so after the appeal, so we can finally put this case to rest maybe in 2013. After which we can move on to something else while Amanda spends the next few years in jail. Based on the average length of stay in Italian prisons, probably she’ll be out by 2017 or 2018. She still got time to kill some other girl in Seattle when she goes back to UofW to finish her studies. Maybe this time she’ll be able to blame it on a black guy successfully.

  • Gary

    Wow I sure missed alot while at work today. Well alot of you that posted right after me summed up what I said very nicely. Thank You. As far as me be dopey; the only dopey one in this case is Magnini. I’m exahausted so all I have to say for the evening is that Amanda and Rafaelle are INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT INNOCENT……………………………..

  • Mary H.

    Al, it’s not like you to miss the point and change the subject so completely. Who do you think you are? Enzo Zoff?

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    You don’t like those places Mary H?

    Have you ever been to either? You would enjoy them. They are much more beautiful than rainy Seattle.

  • Mary H.

    Has anyone been over to truejustice lately and seen these titles?

    “Meredith’s Perugia #21: We Return To The Amalfi Coast As Meredith Might Very Well Have Done”

    “Meredith’s Perugia #23: A Moving Video Of The Venice That Meredith Might Really Have Loved”

    YIKES.

  • Mary H.

    I would hate to see the rules of grammar get in the way of billyryan’s originality, creativity and brilliance.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    hillbillyryan: for sure when you’re in this blog the standards of English spelling really drop very low. Why don’t you try and get a GED, and then come back?

  • Mary H.

    Well, let’s hear more about those oil wells first.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Mary H.: When did you have time to manage your Mideast oil wells, and your factory, and to work as a male model?

    I was Carabiniere only for a year (actually 15 months).

    Hey Mary H.: would you like to date a former male model? and ex carabiniere as well? I still look good in a uniform. Send me your picture, I want to see if you’re really a woman first.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Now, I’m not saying that Giuttari was necessarily right. But who do you think had all the elements to make a better guess? Spezi (a journalist) or Giuttari (the investigator in charge of the case)?

    And regarding Narducci. According to his wife and police investigation the doctor used to drive often from Perugia to Mercatale where he was friend with the pharmacist. One of the 3 convicted monsters, Mario Vanni, recognized his photo and said: “oh yeah! that’s the doctor from Perugia. He used to come to Mercatale and used to go out to prostitutes and various “parties” with his friend (the pharmacist) in Mercatale. Uhmmmmmmm! Coincidence? The doctor from Perugia whom investigators think was killed rather than suicidal used to go very often to the same town where the 3 monsters were from. What a coincidence?

    And guess what? After he was found dead (killed? drowned?) in 1985 the monster’s crimes suddenly stopped. The monster used to kill once or twice every summer in the 1980′s, but suddenly, he stopped after his last murder in the summer of 1985. Coincidentally Narducci was found dead in October of that year.

    What a F…ing coincidence!!! A doctor from Perugia goes all the time to the small town of Mercatale to visit his friends, the same town where the 3 convicted monsters were from, died, maybe strangulated, in misterious circumstances and suddenly all monster murders stop in that same year.

    But noooooo! I’m sure it’s just a coincidence.
    I’m sure the real monster, as Spezi suspects, was some lone Sardinian sheperd who couldn’t get it up with women (or sheep).

  • billyryan

    enzo zoff people up to the age of five talk gibberish or people with the mental age of five, since i think it was a long time since you were five i think you should be removed from this blog on the grounds of limited mental ability.al_fake_dogshite just when i thought the standered of this blog was about to improve with your absence you make your reapearence i suppose at least it got rid of your proxys.any chance you would inform us which part of the framing of amanda enables you to get it up.surley there must be a high rise building somewhere close to you with concrete underneath to enable you to do the world a favour

  • Mary H.

    A-FY wrote: “Were you living in Florence throughout the 1980’s? I was, and served my military service in the Carabinieri.”

    When did you have time to manage your Mideast oil wells, and your factory, and to work as a male model?

  • Shane

    I forgot to mention that the reason they initially became suspicious that Narducci’s suicide was really a murder is because they misinterpreted a tapped phone call from some drug dealers in which they talked about doing the same to another person as was done to the doctor at the lake. Turned out they were talking about a completely different doctor who’d been shot, but by that time it was too late, Mignini was away with the fairies.

    (Again, sounding familiar? ‘See you later?’, anyone?)

  • Shane

    “IT’S TRUE THAT IT WAS NEVER CONFIRMED. BUT THAT POSSIBILITY WAS BASED ON ANONYMOUS LETTERS RECEIVED BY THE INVESTIGATORS. IT WASN’T STRAIGHT OUT OF MIGNINI’S OR GIUTTARI’S IMAGINATION. REGARDING NARDUCCI’S CORPSE WHICH WAS SWITCHED, YOU SAID IT WAS A SIMPLE SUICIDE. EXPLAIN TO ME THE DRUGS AND THE FRACTURED NECK BONE (INDICATING POSSIBLE STRANGULATION) FOUND IN THE AUTOPSY PERFORMED AFTER EXHUMATION IN 2002. ALSO EXPLAIN IT TO NARDUCCI’S WIFE WHO SAID SHE CATEGORICALLY REFUTES THE POSSIBILITY THAT HER HUSBAND COMMITTED SUICIDE FOR ANY REASON.”

    I can’t remember any anonymous letters which spoke of Satanic rituals, the Order of the Rose and so forth. I think those theories were lifted mostly from the blog of an Italian psychic, Gabriela Carlizzi.

    As for the Narducci suicide, his body was exhumed years after his death, and he’d also been in the water for several days before his body was found. The bone in his neck could have broken at any point during that time. This is the problem with seeing medical evidence as absolutely conclusive. There was a witness who saw Narducci in his boat out on the lake at the time he disappeared; when he glanced over at him a few minutes later, he’d disappeared. It was a suicide that Mignini interpreted as ‘staged’ and a ‘cover-up’. Sounding familiar?

    “I WOULDN’T DEFINE PEOPLE WHO COMMITTED CRIMES SUCH AS THOSE VERY NORMAL PEOPLE. THAT DOESN’T MEAN HIS CONFESSION WAS FAKE. HOW DID HE LEARN THE DETAILS OF THE KILLING OF THE TWO GERMANS?”

    When I say he was a nutjob, I don’t mean he was a psychotic murderer, I mean he wasn’t all there: “Lotti was a sort of village idiot of the classic kind that have largely disappeared from the modern world, a man who subsisted on the charity of the village, who was fed, clothed, and housed by his fellow citizens, and who entertained all with his unwitting antics. Lotti hung about the town square, grinning and hailing people… He maintained himself in a felicitous state of inebriation, consuming two liters of wine a day, more on holidays”.

    He was completely wrong in the details of his initial statements about the crime, and his account only began to line up with the prosecution’s after he’d spent several months talking to them (with free lodgings, food, and plentiful wine available). Reminiscent of Kokomani and Curatola in the Kercher case.

    “SO THE FBI PROFILES ARE THE GOSPEL? THEY’RE ALWAYS RIGHT 100% OF THE TIME?
    IN THAT CASE NO NEED TO HAVE AN APPEAL IN PERUGIA. RAFFAELE SOLLECITO IS DEFINITELY 100%GUILTY. ACCORDING TO THE FBI THE TYPICAL PROFILE OF A MURDERER COMMITTING A CRIME SIMILAR TO THE ONE IN PERUGIA IS A WHITE MALE. ET VOILA’. CASE SOLVED. SEND RUDY HOME TOMORROW!”

    Say what? You can’t just equate the profile of the Monster of Florence killer with an entirely different crime. The profile for a rapist/murderer who acted in the way this attacker did would be completely different.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Hey ColonelHall:

    here is how to buy the book by Giuttari:
    http://libri.rizzoli.rcslibri.it/sclibro.php?isbn=17009792

    And this is what it says in the website

    Michele Giuttari
    The Monster. Anatomy of an investigation.

    Read the first chapter online

    Euro: 18.00
    Pages: 364
    Buy online

    I wrote the incontrovertible investigative truth of a police investigation in many ways unique in the world: the crimes of the Monster of Florence.

    Between 1974 and 1985 a series of atrocious murders disrupts the outskirts of Florence, seven couples are massacred in isolated places where they had hidden themselves during their love encounters. Two German tourists (one of which is mistaken for a woman because he wore long hair) suffer the same fate. In some cases the corpses of the victims are horribly mutilated to remove gruesome trophies. The investigations follows different tracks, then focuses on a farmer, Pietro Pacciani, who is in the meanwhile in prison for sexually assaulting his daughters. The evidence collected get him sentenced to life imprisonment in 1994, but they do not satisfy the prosecutor Piero Luigi Vigna. How could a man “rude” and ignorant as Pacciani do everything himself, deceiving the police multiple times and even demonstrating skills of surgeon? The appeal process is set for January 1996; Vigna decides to reopen the investigation and entrusts the right man: Michele Giuttari, newly appointed Head of Mobile Squad of the Tuscan capital. Giuttari immersed himself in the case files, in the minutes of the interrogations, investigating, questioning and becomes convinced that the truth is very different from that established by the court ruling: omissions, ignored evidence, a climate of fear is still palpable as if people knew that the “monster” may return to strike at any moment, while silence and innuendo, rumors, rumors that one must have the patience to connect. And little by little Giuttari comes to the certainty that Pacciani CAN NOT HAVE ACTED ALONE. The investigations, masterfully reconstructed in this book by the one who was the protagonist, will cause the conviction of the so called “pic-nic friends” of the Mercatale peasant (Pacciani), friends with whom he executed his heinous crimes, but Giuttari also realizes that above them there must have been an unsuspected person who was pulling the strings, commissioned the killings, and collected those dismal trophies as fetishes. Pacciani died in obscure circumstances and at this point investigations are inexplicably hampered by Giuttari’s superiors, and Giuttari was receiving increasingly pressing calls to stop further investigations. But Giuttari does not give up, he completes his work, but here are his final bitter words: “My time has expired. I collected a dossier throughout the investigation, which contains the incontrovertible investigative truth. Time will tell if the investigative truth will coincide with the judicial one or, as it has unfortunately happened once in this affair, the two will eventually diverge. A book by a law man who does not resign himself to half-truths and dares to demand that light be shed on one of the bloodiest series of crimes that have rocked our country.

  • Where oh where?

    Reading the micheli report, I see there are 3 bloody towels reported, 1 on the bed and 2 on the floor. It is my understanding that these towels mildewed so no evidence could be gained from them. Is this true? I can find no mention of the towels in any of the trial reports I have read.

    Why or how would/could the forensic police let all 3 towels mildew?

  • colonelhall

    I am nearing the end of the Monster Of Florence and a ripping good yarn it is! Spezzi’s theory seems very convincing. However, after following the kercher case, I am inclined to take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I am nearing the end of the book and Spezzi is now in prison being denied his rights, it appears. However, the chances that he really was on the verge of solving the case, in the manner described, seems just too incredible for words. At this stage, I have the feeling that he and Preston could have been up to no good.
    I am sorry that i cannot read Italian, as I would like to have had the opportunity of viewing the case from Giuttari point of view.
    I still do not consider that it impacts on the kercher case. Knox and Sollecito appear to be as guilty as sin.

  • Where oh where?

    Al,
    Did the FBI do a profile that I am unaware of?

    You say “THEN WE MUST CONCLUDE THAT, BY THE SAME TOKEN, RUDY IS INNOCENT, BECAUSE THAT CRIME FITS THE PROFILE OF A WHITE MALE, ACCORDING TO CRIMINOLOGISTS’ PROFILES.”

    I say, Huh?

    The FBI drew their conclusions on the monster of Florence killer based on evidence submitted to them, they didn’t just pull it out of the air. You equate this specific FBI profile with a general criminologists profile. They’re not the same.

    Give the FBI profilers the evidence on the Meredith Kercher case and see what conclusions they reach. I know this won’t happen, at least not in Italy, but I bet we see profilers popping out in some of the many books slated to come out about this trial.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    WOW: “Its conclusion was that the Monster was of a type well known to the FBI: a lone, sexually impotent male with a pathological hatred of women, who satisfied his libidinous cravings through killing.”

    SHOULD WE ASSUME THAT CRIME PROFILES BY LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE ALWAYS 100% RIGHT?

    OK DEAL!! THEY CONVICTED THE WRONG MONSTER OF FLORENCE.

    THEN WE MUST CONCLUDE THAT, BY THE SAME TOKEN, RUDY IS INNOCENT, BECAUSE THAT CRIME FITS THE PROFILE OF A WHITE MALE, ACCORDING TO CRIMINOLOGISTS’ PROFILES.

    DO WE WANT TO GO WITH RAFFAELE AS THE ONLY CULPRIT?

  • Where oh where?

    ““From the FBI profile of the killer (conveniently ignored by the crazy conspiracy theorists)”

    SO THE FBI PROFILES ARE THE GOSPEL? THEY’RE ALWAYS RIGHT 100% OF THE TIME?
    IN THAT CASE NO NEED TO HAVE AN APPEAL IN PERUGIA. RAFFAELE SOLLECITO IS DEFINITELY 100%GUILTY. ACCORDING TO THE FBI THE TYPICAL PROFILE OF A MURDERER COMMITTING A CRIME SIMILAR TO THE ONE IN PERUGIA IS A WHITE MALE. ET VOILA’. CASE SOLVED. SEND RUDY HOME TOMORROW!”

    I wish the prosecution would commission a profile of the person who murdered Meredith, see who the profile actually fits. This profile is a tool only but it can be very informative and while I know the FBI isn’t 100% right, I would bet they are right far more often than they are wrong.

  • Where oh where?

    “One of Spezi’s big scoops had been the discovery of a report prepared for Inspector Perugini by the FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit in Quantico, Virginia. It had been commissioned in secret and then suppressed, because it didn’t describe Pacciani. The report cataloged the killer’s likely characteristics, explained his probable motive, and speculated as to how and why he killed, how he chose his targets, what he did with the body parts he collected, and much more. Its conclusion was that the Monster was of a type well known to the FBI: a lone, sexually impotent male with a pathological hatred of women, who satisfied his libidinous cravings through killing.”

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Shane said: “The trouble with the Monster of Florence theories Mignini and Guattari came up with is that there’s no evidence for these rituals involving a cult that needed female body parts; it’s fantasy

    IT’S TRUE THAT IT WAS NEVER CONFIRMED. BUT THAT POSSIBILITY WAS BASED ON ANONYMOUS LETTERS RECEIVED BY THE INVESTIGATORS. IT WASN’T STRAIGHT OUT OF MIGNINI’S OR GIUTTARI’S IMAGINATION. REGARDING NARDUCCI’S CORPSE WHICH WAS SWITCHED, YOU SAID IT WAS A SIMPLE SUICIDE. EXPLAIN TO ME THE DRUGS AND THE FRACTURED NECK BONE (INDICATING POSSIBLE STRANGULATION) FOUND IN THE AUTOPSY PERFORMED AFTER EXHUMATION IN 2002. ALSO EXPLAIN IT TO NARDUCCI’S WIFE WHO SAID SHE CATEGORICALLY REFUTES THE POSSIBILITY THAT HER HUSBAND COMMITTED SUICIDE FOR ANY REASON.

    “Lotti, I believe, was a bit of a nutjob (if I’m thinking of the right person)”
    I WOULDN’T DEFINE PEOPLE WHO COMMITTED CRIMES SUCH AS THOSE VERY NORMAL PEOPLE. THAT DOESN’T MEAN HIS CONFESSION WAS FAKE. HOW DID HE LEARN THE DETAILS OF THE KILLING OF THE TWO GERMANS?

    “From the FBI profile of the killer (conveniently ignored by the crazy conspiracy theorists)”

    SO THE FBI PROFILES ARE THE GOSPEL? THEY’RE ALWAYS RIGHT 100% OF THE TIME?
    IN THAT CASE NO NEED TO HAVE AN APPEAL IN PERUGIA. RAFFAELE SOLLECITO IS DEFINITELY 100%GUILTY. ACCORDING TO THE FBI THE TYPICAL PROFILE OF A MURDERER COMMITTING A CRIME SIMILAR TO THE ONE IN PERUGIA IS A WHITE MALE. ET VOILA’. CASE SOLVED. SEND RUDY HOME TOMORROW!

  • Shane

    AFY said: “Shane said: “Do you really think Magnini is competent? He’s about as competent as George Bush was as President of the U.S.A.””

    Erm, no I didn’t. I’d probably agree, though.

  • Shane

    AFG wrote: “Don’t forget that one of the 3 monsters (Giancarlo Lotti) confessed to at least some of the crimes and implicated the other two with very detailed elements that somebody extraneous to the crimes would not know.
    Another of the 3 monsters (Piero Pacciani) was seen in two occasions near two separate murder sites. Also a bullet from the murder weapon used in all murders (a Beretta caliber 22) was found in his garden behind his house in Mercatale Val di Pesa, just south of Florence.
    Lotti also stated in court that there were “very up high people” whose name he couldn’t mention, who purchased the body parts from them.”

    The trouble with the Monster of Florence theories Mignini and Guattari came up with is that there’s no evidence for these rituals involving a cult that needed female body parts; it’s fantasy, just like the orgy/murder scenario Mignini’s outlined for the Kercher case. Lotti, I believe, was a bit of a nutjob (if I’m thinking of the right person) and all the people accused were vulnerable in one way or another. Guattari is now a best-selling crime novelist, which is probably where Mignini should set his sights too.

    From the FBI profile of the killer (conveniently ignored by the crazy conspiracy theorists):

    “These eight assaults were, in the opinion of the analysts examining the submitted materials, perpetrated by the same offender, who acted alone. The attacks themselves are classified as “lust murders.” FBI research into crimes of violence indicates that lust murders typically involve the mutilation and/or displacement of the victim’s breasts , genitals or rectum.”

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19313866/ns/dateline_nbc/

    An interesting read.

  • IVSTITIA

    JW: “Well I think we all agree here that military service in the Carabineri or the police force in Italy has been proved not to equate with an in-depth knowledge of how any particular criminal case works or who is guilty and who is not, those kinds of boring details that get in the way of you being able to strut around in your fancy uniform, showing off to the girls!!”

    True! However whoever lived in or around Florence in those years certainly had a lot of exposure to the case, since it was an obsessive presence in the press.

    I’m certain the Carabinieri, even the ones who chose to serve just for a year as auxiliaries in the then compulsory military service, had their “monster” prevention duties, such as patrolling every single secluded road in the countryside to make sure nobody would be so silly to have sex in their cars.

    No chance for Al-Fakh to show off his uniform with the girls nowadays. The service in the Carabinieri as auxiliary was eliminated with the implementation of an all volunteer military (like in the US) at the beginning of this millennium.

  • John Winters

    Al-FhakYoup says:

    ”Were you living in Florence throughout the 1980’s? I was, and served my military service in the Carabinieri. You’re more informed than me? I think not.”

    Well I think we all agree here that military service in the Carabineri or the police force in Italy has been proved not to equate with an in-depth knowledge of how any particular criminal case works or who is guilty and who is not, those kinds of boring details that get in the way of you being able to strut around in your fancy uniform, showing off to the girls!!

  • IVSTITIA

    Where on Where: in reference to your request to Al-Fakh.

    This is the most famous recent expulsion of a judge from the judiciary by the CSM:
    http://www.corriere.it/cronache/10_gennaio_22/csm-rimozione-giudice-tosti-crocefisso-aula_152fed4c-0753-11df-8946-00144f02aabe.shtml

    It was the case of a judge who refused to have the crucifix in his courtroom. Crucifixes are mandatory in the Italian court room, if you can believe that. Since I’m an atheist don’t ask me to justify such stupid law in clear violation, in my opinion, of the principle of separation of Church and State, also present in the Italian constitution at art. 7. It’s the cultural heritage from the Pope’s temporal power I guess. Forget the judges and prosecutors, those who hold the most power in Italy are the bishops.

    The article below is from a legal professional website. It cites some statistics on the increased disciplinary action by the CSM after the recent reform of the disciplinary procedures. Full removal of a magistrate is not really common, unless they do something really serious (like going against the will of the Catholic church, as we saw above). More common are other types of disciplinary actions, such as suspensions, demotions, transfers etc. http://www.studiocataldi.it/news_giuridiche_asp/news_giuridica_6984.asp

  • Where oh where?

    Al said: “Also notes that even in America not all states elect District Attorneys. In several states they are appointed by the Governor, and therefore Americans can’t vote them out either.
    State Assistant DA’s are not elected either. They’re hired by each district.
    You should learn how things work in your own country before criticizing how things work in others’.”

    I’ll tell you something, Al, I come from a city that had a rogue prosecutor who had a rogue forensic helper who put a lot of innocent folks in jail. It took over 20 years to bring the pair down, and in actuality, the prosecutor retired and the forensic helper was just fired from her job. No criminal charges are pending for all the harm these two people did, and it’s doubtful that any criminal charges will ever be brought. You see, some of the people they “brought to justice” were put to death in those 20 years and I guess no one wants to open that can of worms.

    So, I am acutely aware of what can happen in court cases. I am not claiming that this is what happened in the Amanda and Raffaele trial, but I see lots of things that are questionable. And I can’t help but ask for answers, even if I’m stupid or ignorant or whatever.

  • Where oh where?

    Al said: “Although the Superior Council of Magistrates (Italian acronym CSM) is an independent self governing body, the constitution guarantees checks and balances by:

    1- requiring that 1/3 are representatives sent by Parliament (Check and Balance by the Legislative power).
    2- requiring that 2/3 are representatives by the judiciary (check and balance from the Judicial Power)
    3- requiring that the council is chaired by the President of Italy (Check and Balance from the Executive).”

    Sorry, Al, I just keep thinking of things to ask.

    Does the judge and/or prosecutor brought before this council also get 3 bites of the apple? Do they get to appeal? Do they get to appeal more than once? Do they get to stay in office while the council goes about trying to fire them?

    Or do they just get a letter in the mail that says they’re fired?

  • Where oh where?

    Al Said: “Why don’t you study some constitutional law before talking.”

    I have never pretended to being a lawyer or to having studied Italy’s constitutional law. I’m just an average person with a lot of curiosity. I’m not that adroit with words so I can only try to express my thoughts as best I can.

    OK, I get what your saying about the checks and balances, at least on paper. How do these checks and balances work in the real world? That’s why I was asking about giving me some help in finding cases of where judges or prosecutors have been removed from office and the reasons behind these removals.

  • Where oh where?

    Al Said: “But you wouldn’t know. Since you don’t read Italian newspapers.”

    I asked you to give me sources for the removal of any judge or prosecutor. I can get the Italian stories translated. I wanted to see what charges were brought against any of the judges or prosecutors that have been removed. I am curious about this part of Italian history. I would like to the so called “in and outs” of the dismissal process.
    Thanks in advance.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    WOW: Al, dear, what you are really proving is that judges and prosecutors in Italy enjoy an almost unprecedented amount of power with an almost nonexistent lack of any checks or balances. It’s really frightening.”

    Ignorance is sovereign in your brain.

    Although the Superior Council of Magistrates (Italian acronym CSM) is an independent self governing body, the constitution guarantees checks and balances by:

    1- requiring that 1/3 are representatives sent by Parliament (Check and Balance by the Legislative power).
    2- requiring that 2/3 are representatives by the judiciary (check and balance from the Judicial Power)
    3- requiring that the council is chaired by the President of Italy (Check and Balance from the Executive).

    Why don’t you study some constitutional law before talking.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    WOW said: “what choice does the Italian public have if they feel a judge or prosecutor is incompetent?”

    The removal of an incompetent prosecutor (or even just disciplinary action) is the responsibility of the Superior Council of Magistrates. Such council is composed of 24 appointed members and 3 de jure members (The president of Italy, The Prime President of the Supreme Court, and the Prosecutor General before the Suprem court). The 24 elected members are elected as follows:
    16 are judges elected by the entire body of magistrates nationwide.
    8 are University professors of law elected by Parliament.
    The Chairman of the Council is the President of Italy.
    The Vice Chairman is elected by the council choosing among the 8 members elected by Parliament.

    This body is responsible for:
    -Hiring
    -Training
    -Transfering
    -Disciplining
    -Terminating
    the Italian magistrates.

    Magistrates do get disciplined and even fired by the CSM.

    But you wouldn’t know. Since you don’t read Italian newspapers.

    Also notes that even in America not all states elect District Attorneys. In several states they are appointed by the Governor, and therefore Americans can’t vote them out either.
    State Assistant DA’s are not elected either. They’re hired by each district.
    You should learn how things work in your own country before criticizing how things work in others’.

  • Where oh where?

    Al, dear, what you are really proving is that judges and prosecutors in Italy enjoy an almost unprecedented amount of power with an almost nonexistent lack of any checks or balances. It’s really frightening.

    No wonder mignini is getting away with it.

  • Where oh where?

    Al Said: “You just mentioned Bush, whom you describe as incompetent. Bush was elected twice by a majority of Americans (the first time nearly a majority), and there is the possibility that the next time around Americans might elect an even less competent person, just because she’s got a pretty face and a cute behind.
    Well! That’s the type of people that sometime get selected through popular suffrage.”

    At least the American public has a chance to get rid of someone they feel is incompetent. But what choice does the Italian public have if they feel a judge or prosecutor is incompetent? None. No wonder they buckle under to the pressures placed on them by a rogue prosecutor.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Shane said: “Do you really think Magnini is competent? He’s about as competent as George Bush was as President of the U.S.A.”

    Magistrates in Italy are selected through a rigorous set of tests and interviews in law principles and practice. Not all might turn out to be great magistrates, but do you have a better way to select candidates for a job? It sure beats having the people elect judges and District Attorneys in State elections.

    You just mentioned Bush, whom you describe as incompetent. Bush was elected twice by a majority of Americans (the first time nearly a majority), and there is the possibility that the next time around Americans might elect an even less competent person, just because she’s got a pretty face and a cute behind.
    Well! That’s the type of people that sometime get selected through popular suffrage.

  • Where oh where?

    Al said: “ALSO, WHOSE POLITICAL GAIN ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ITALIAN PROSECUTORS ARE NOT ELECTED LIKE IN AMERICA OR NOT EVEN APPOINTED BY GOVERNORS AND PRESIDENTS. THE POLITICAL CLAIM ARGUMENT IS VALID FOR AMERICAN PROSECUTORS RATHER, SINCE THEY OFTEN WANT TO APPEAR TO BE TOUGH ON CRIME FOR ELECTORAL REASONS. NOT SO IN ITALY WHERE THEY ARE SELECTED BY AN INDEPENDENT BODY OF MAGISTRATES (SUPERIOR COUNCIL OF MAGISTRATES) BASED ON THEIR COMPETENCE IN LEGAL MATTERS.

    “the judges were afraid of losing their jobs”
    IMPOSSIBLE. THE ITALIAN CONSTITUTION GUARANTEES JUDGES AND PROSECUTORS EXTRAORDINARY PROTECTIONS. ITALIAN MAGISTRATES ARE UNMOVABLE AND CAN BE DISCIPLINED ONLY BY THE SUPERIOR COUNCIL OF MAGISTRATES, WHICH CAN DO SO ONLY THROUGH A MOTION VOTED BY THE MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS.”

    Doesn’t this scare the hell out of you? Don’t you get it, there is no one who can stop a rogue prosecutor!!!! A majority of this council has to agree. OK. How often has this happened in Italian history? And, if it has, who was the prosecutor and why was he or she removed from office?

    Al, I am truly interested in this bit of Italian history. I would like some insight on what it takes to get a prosecutor removed from office and how many have been removed.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Shame said: “This is such rubbish. Everyone except Mignini and Guattari thought it was a lone serial killer, yet those two came up with this crazy multiple killer theory in which female body parts were used in satanic rituals.”

    Were you living in Florence throughout the 1980′s? I was, and served my military service in the Carabinieri.

    You’re more informed than me? I think not.

    Don’t forget that one of the 3 monsters (Giancarlo Lotti) confessed to at least some of the crimes and implicated the other two with very detailed elements that somebody extraneous to the crimes would not know.
    Another of the 3 monsters (Piero Pacciani) was seen in two occasions near two separate murder sites. Also a bullet from the murder weapon used in all murders (a Beretta caliber 22) was found in his garden behind his house in Mercatale Val di Pesa, just south of Florence.
    Lotti also stated in court that there were “very up high people” whose name he couldn’t mention, who purchased the body parts from them.
    Investigators found that conspicuous sums of money were deposited at various occasions in the 3 monsters’ bank accounts. Sums which are not consistent with the modest means of a retired small farmer and a postal worker.

    The lone serial killer might have been the initial hypothesis, but once those 3 were caught and those confessions were made, it was clear that there were more than one killer.

    Don’t just read Spezi’s theory of the lone Sardinian sheperd and think it’s the Gospel.

  • Shane

    John Winters said: “No that IS exactly it Shane. Batman didn’t want crooks like The Riddler, Joker, Penguin, or Chief of Police Giuseppe De Donno to go free.”

    Ah yes! It all makes sense now. Silly me :p

  • Shane

    “Please provide a source for this claim.”

    I second this; I’ve seen no mention of the amount of DNA found on the knife, nor evidence of how it was handled and tested.

    Imagine what Mignini would’ve made of the Matthew Hardman case. He’d probably have argued someone staged the break-in through the window and that it was a ritualistic sacrifice by multiple attackers (well, he’d be a little closer to the truth than he is in the Kercher case at least).

  • PhanuelB

    “The DNA trace found on the knife was LESS than that found on S’s knife!”

    Please provide a source for this claim.

  • John Winters

    Buzz off says:

    ”You should check out Mathew Hardman a 17 year old Welsh kid who stabbed 22 times a 90 year old lady.”

    Oh not that old chestnut. Hardman was psychotic and killed the old lady as part of a self-tailored ritual, cutting out her heart and drinking her blood!! Now if you’re going to start Mingin-like fantasising about Amanda and Raffaele again, there’s no point in continuing this discussion.

    Busy bee says:

    ”Guess what they found? Under the bed, were his runners. They searched the whole bedroom of course and found the knife in his wardrobe with the old lady’s blood/DNA.”

    The only runners with any relevance to the case in question are a pair of Nike Outbreak 2′s owned by ”Rudy.”

    There was NO BLOOD ON THE KNIFE.

    The DNA trace ”found” on Raffaelle’s knife by Steffanoni (for chrissake!) was so small as to be probably caused by cross contamination in the lab and would not have made it to court in the US or UK.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Gary:

    you say:

    “….. yet so stupid to put the knife that you claim was used in the murder back in Solecito’s house? (Must be that knife was made of gold and they didn’t want to part with it.) Would you take the murder weapon back to your house and put it back in your kitchen drawer if you just killed your girlfriend’s roommate with it?”

    The answer is yes, of course. That’s how murderer’s get caught, dopey.

    You should check out Mathew Hardman a 17 year old Welsh kid who stabbed 22 times a 90 year old lady.

    The only lead the police had were footprints made by a rare brand of runners. A million to one chance tip-off got the police searching this kid’s bedroom.

    Guess what they found? Under the bed, were his runners. They searched the whole bedroom of course and found the knife in his wardrobe with the old lady’s blood/DNA.

    Wanna know what else is interesting about this case? The DNA trace found on the knife was LESS than that found on S’s knife! HE had ‘cleaned’ it too, or at least he thought he had. And, the sample was a lot older than 47 days.

    There’s an old adage amongst litigation lawyers; NEVER ask a question unless you KNOW the answer.

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Gary:

    “Do you really think Magnini is competent?”

    Have you asked Amanda?

    dixi

  • John Winters

    colonelhall says:

    “Or could it be that he desperately wanted to uphold the law and not allow crooks to go free?”

    No that IS exactly it Shane. Batman didn’t want crooks like The Riddler, Joker, Penguin, or Chief of Police Giuseppe De Donno to go free.

  • Gary

    Al Fakh said:
    3 WOUNDS IN MEZ’ NECK. THE LARGEST WAS COMPATIBLE WITH THE KNIFE SEIZED AT SOLLECITO’S APARTMENT.

    Compatible! Compatible with what? Compatible with the millions of other knifes in the world like that one. Come now. Do you actually believe that they would be so careful not to leave any irrefutable evidence at the crime scene, yet so stupid to put the knife that you claim was used in the murder back in Solecito’s house? (Must be that knife was made of gold and they didn’t want to part with it.) Would you take the murder weapon back to your house and put it back in your kitchen drawer if you just killed your girlfriend’s roommate with it?

    Al Fakh said:
    NOT SO IN ITALY WHERE THEY ARE SELECTED BY AN INDEPENDENT BODY OF MAGISTRATES (SUPERIOR COUNCIL OF MAGISTRATES. BASED ON THEIR COMPETENCE IN LEGAL MATTERS.
    Do you really think Magnini is competent? He’s about as competent as George Bush was as President of the U.S.A.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Shane:

    “No, that’s not it.”

    why not, shane?

    dixi

  • Shane

    “Or could it be that he desperately wanted to uphold the law and not allow crooks to go free?”

    No, that’s not it.

  • Shane

    “Most people believe that the 3 of them were not alone. Most still believe it was a doctor who did the ablation of the female parts from the victims (in the 1980’s in Florence practically all MD’s were put under investigation).”

    This is such rubbish. Everyone except Mignini and Guattari thought it was a lone serial killer, yet those two came up with this crazy multiple killer theory in which female body parts were used in satanic rituals. Everyone thought Narducci’s suicide was just, well, a suicide, but Mignini and Guattari decided it had to be staged and furthermore, that his body had been switched with someone else’s before it was buried. When it was exhumed and found in fact to be Narducci’s, they simply claimed that it had been switched again! (Shades of their theory on the knife, there: ‘the knife doesn’t fit the wounds? No problem, there must’ve been two!’). It’s completely insane.

  • Mary H.

    I just stumbled upon this exemplary piece. It was written before the verdict, but the relatively short blog continues until more than a month afterward. There is a lot of interesting information and civil commentary in the blog as well as the essay.

    Issue of Demeanor Raised In Amanda Knox Case
    Posted November 30th 2009 at 3:52 pm by Steve Graham
    The perspective of a criminal defense attorney…

    http://www.grahamlawyerblog.com/2009/11/30/issue-of-demeanor-raised-in-amanda-knox-case/

  • colonelhall

    “Mingini tapped these police officers because he thought at the time that he was Batman and that Florence was Gotham City. Which is even more reason why he should be detained in either a psychiatric or a penal institution.”

    Or could it be that he desperately wanted to uphold the law and not allow crooks to go free?

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John Winters:

    ‘here’s Joooohhhnnnyyyyy’

    Deep … really deep!

    ===================================================
    @Al-Fakh Yugoudh:

    I have followed your posts and those of colonelhall with interests, and i hope you don’t mind me making an observation.

    I’m saying this based on my own experience of dealing with the likes of John ‘here’s Joooohhhnnnyy” Winters and of course our beloved Mary H, Candence or whoever she might be.

    Guys, it’s a waste of time !

    Al-Fakh Yugoudh, with the utmost respect, you fight on as if these idiots were reasonable people with a genuine desire to discuss an issue mixed with a bit of entertainment.

    They’re FOA puppets!

    Of course, it’s your choice, but there comes a time that all you do is provide fuel for their cause which is mainly to stall, stifle, distract and generally confuse all issues.

    Why do they do this?

    Because they can.

    PS. billyryan is John ‘here’s Joooohhhnnny’ Winters.

    take care,

    dixi

  • John Winters

    Al-FhakYougud says:

    ”THERE WERE 3 WOUNDS……THE LARGEST WAS COMPATIBLE WITH THE KNIFE SEIZED AT SOLLECITO’S APARTMENT”

    Do you realise how terrifying it is when you say things like that seeings as Amanda’s fate is in the hands of people like you?

    Some of us are genuinely losing weight over Amanda’s predicament. Please keep that in mind before blurting out exposures like this, of your brilliant exercises in deduction.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    Gary said:
    “murder weapon not being a match to the wounds on the victim”
    NOT TRUE. THERE WERE 3 WOUNDS IN MEZ’ NECK. THE LARGEST WAS COMPATIBLE WITH THE KNIFE SEIZED AT SOLLECITO’S APARTMENT. READ THE COURT RECORDS. IT IS CLEARLY STATED THAT THE WOUNDS WERE THE PRODUCT OF TWO DIFFERENT KNIVES (ONE SUBSTANTIALLY LARGER THAN THE OTHER). YOU CAN THINK OTHERWISE, BUT THAT’S ON THE RECORD (READ MICHELI’S SENTENCE MOTIVATION REPORT).

    “why you believe this was a satanic sex ritual killing”
    I NEVER SAID SO. MY COMMENTS REFERRED TO THE MONSTER OF FLORENCE. NOBODY SAID THAT THE KERCHER’S MURDER WAS BECAUSE OF SATANIC RITUALS. IT’S NOWHERE IN THE COURT RECORDS. IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A HYPOTHESIS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE INVESTIGATION (I DON’T KNOW), BUT IT’S NOT PART OF THE COURT RECORDS ANYWHERE. THAT HYPOTHESIS NEVER MADE IT TO COURT (IF THERE WAS EVER SUCH A HYPOTHESIS).

    “this case was not for justice but for political gain and hatred toward the Americans.”
    THAT’S PURE HOGWASH. THERE IS NO ANTI-AMERICANISM IN ITALY (ON THE CONTRARY), AND ALSO DON’T FORGET THAT TWO CONVICTED CO-DEFENDANTS ARE NOT AMERICAN (ONE IS ITALIAN AND THE OTHER IS FROM IVORY COAST BUT RAISED IN PERUGIA). THE ANTI-AMERICANISM CLAIM IS A SILLY EXCUSE BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND FEW OTHERS WHO’VE NEVER VISITED OUTSIDE OF YOUR OWN STATE OF WASHINGTON (OR WHICHEVER STATE YOU LIVE IN).

    ALSO, WHOSE POLITICAL GAIN ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? ITALIAN PROSECUTORS ARE NOT ELECTED LIKE IN AMERICA OR NOT EVEN APPOINTED BY GOVERNORS AND PRESIDENTS. THE POLITICAL CLAIM ARGUMENT IS VALID FOR AMERICAN PROSECUTORS RATHER, SINCE THEY OFTEN WANT TO APPEAR TO BE TOUGH ON CRIME FOR ELECTORAL REASONS. NOT SO IN ITALY WHERE THEY ARE SELECTED BY AN INDEPENDENT BODY OF MAGISTRATES (SUPERIOR COUNCIL OF MAGISTRATES) BASED ON THEIR COMPETENCE IN LEGAL MATTERS.

    “the judges were afraid of losing their jobs”
    IMPOSSIBLE. THE ITALIAN CONSTITUTION GUARANTEES JUDGES AND PROSECUTORS EXTRAORDINARY PROTECTIONS. ITALIAN MAGISTRATES ARE UNMOVABLE AND CAN BE DISCIPLINED ONLY BY THE SUPERIOR COUNCIL OF MAGISTRATES, WHICH CAN DO SO ONLY THROUGH A MOTION VOTED BY THE MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERS.

    “When this is all said and done Amanda and Rafaelle will be free.”
    WE’LL SEE. IT’S NOT UP TO YOU OR ME TO DECIDE.

    “Amanda and Rafaelle would have never been charged in America”
    I’M NOT SURE. THERE ARE PLENTY OF CASES IN AMERICA OF INDIVIDUALS CONVICTED WITH MUCH LESS EVIDENCE. LET’S NOT FORGET THAT ACCORDING TO THE INNOCENCE PROJECT AS OF TODAY 250 INMATES HAVE BEEN EXONERATED FROM VIOLENT CRIMES IN THE PAST FEW YEARS. THEY HAD SPENT AN AVERAGE OF 13 YEARS IN JAIL BEFORE RELEASE. ONE HAD SPENT ALREADY 35 YEARS IN JAIL (JAMES BAIN IN FLORIDA) AND 17 WERE WAITING TO BE EXECUTED IN DEATH ROW. YOU HAVE A NERVE TO IMPLY THAT THE US JUSTICE SYSTEM IS BETTER THAN THE ITALIAN ONE.

    http://www.innocenceproject.org/about/Mission-Statement.php

  • John Winters

    I don’t know which was the more frightening, your last post, or the link to the article about good ol’ Mingin’s ”list of people he’s gonna get.”

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    My date “Mary H” said: “Mignini is a vindictive power-tripper.”

    There might be some truth to thatl, as you can see in the article below.

    http://blog.panorama.it/italia/2010/02/08/i-metodi-di-giuliano-mignini-sei-mio-nemico-vai-indagato/

    PS: DISCLOSURE: “Panorama” is one of Italy’s leading weekly magazines published by Mondadori SpA. Mondadori SpA is Italy’s largest publisher which is owned by the Berlusconi family. Since Berlusconi is being investigated and undergoing multiple trials for bribing, tax evasion, false accounting etc., he has often viciously attacked Italian prosecutors (whom he accuses of being politically motivated ‘liberals’). Therefore any attack to prosecutors in this magazine (and other media belonging to Berlusconi) should be taken with a grain of salt, since often these attacks to Italian magistrates by his media outlets are intended to be self serving arguments for his reasons of not wanting to subject himself to court judgement. As you all know Berlusconi is trying all possible ways (including ad hominem immunity laws) to avoid going to court. I just wanted to mention this for the purpose of disclosure.

  • Gary

    Al-Fakh Yugoudh
    Wow you have a very foul mouth. I hope that you don’t talk like that in front of children. As far as Magnini’s other case having nothing to do with the Knock case you are so wrong. First of all it highlights the same exact motive behind the two cases (Satanic Rituals.)
    In your own words:
    Unfortunately his Florentine colleagues didn’t agree with him and there was certainly friction between the two prosecutors’ offices (Florence in charge of the MOF and Perugia in charge of the Narducci’s case). In the end he overstepped his authority when he tried to investigate the police officials in Florence and got in trouble for it.
    Does this not say a little something about his character? It most certainly does considering that he overstepped his authority and broke the law to try and get information that was not authorized by the courts. He also was found guilty of tampering with evidence amongst other things. Why are you so persistent that Magnini is such an upstanding citizen? Why do you believe that he would not go out of his way to do the same criminal acts in Amanda’s case? Why do you find Magnini to be such a great person who is only out for the truth and not to further his carrier?
    I am still waiting along with the thousands of other people for you to come out with the irrefutable evidence you claim to be in the Knock case. We are all still waiting for your reasoning behind why the knife that was used in trial as the murder weapon not being a match to the wounds on the victim and the imprints left behind of the knife. We are also waiting for an explanation as to why you believe this was a satanic sex ritual killing in which no irrefutable evidence was found implicating Amanda and Rafaelle as being at the scene of the crime. What is your motive behind all of this? Are you an American hater?
    AMANDA AND RAFAELLE ARE INNOCENT……………
    This case is the biggest miscarriage of justice since the O.J. Simpson Case. The evidence in this case is total garbage and the people behind the convictions are scared of what the Italian public would have thought if they were acquitted because of all the crap put in the tabloids, the judges were afraid of losing their jobs, and this Magnini fellow was only worried about his reputation and his carrier.
    To be perfectly frank with you; this case was not for justice but for political gain and hatred toward the Americans. Think what you want, but you know just as well as I do and many others who support Amanda that this was a lynch mob. When this is all said and done Amanda and Rafaelle will be free. The real killer (Geuda) will spend his 16 short years in jail (Which will most likely turn into 8 to 10 years in the end) and he will then go free. As far as I’m concerned and the way the American justice system works he would be spending the rest of his miserable life behind bars. Amanda and Rafaelle would have never been charged in America….

  • John Winters

    colonelhall says;

    (Foreword by JW: In fact, I love this bit the best because it made me LOL (laugh out loud)):

    ”I fail to see how he (Mingin) was wire tapping for personal gain.”

    I have considered the other possibilities which might account for why Mingini tapped and recorded the private telephone conversations of senior police officers and confess have only managed to come up with one: that Mingini tapped these police officers because he thought at the time that he was Batman and that Florence was Gotham City. Which is even more reason why he should be detained in either a psychiatric or a penal institution.

  • Mary H.

    billy, I would definitely have to give Mignini the honor, due to his positions of privilege and responsibility in society, as well as the educational opportunities he took advantage of. The other three all have social or intellectual deficienceies that provide them with an explanation, if not an excuse, for their behavior. Mignini is an insecure, vindictive power-tripper. The other three are gnats.

  • Al-Fakh Yugoudh

    billyryan said
    am February 8 2010 @ 4:33 pm

    “enzo zoff would you ever do the world a favour learn to speak english or else shut to fuck up.”

    Wow! This is amazing coming from somebody that has no knowledge whatsoever of the most elementary rules of punctuation, spelling and grammar.

    Colonelhall
    How about reading also the book by Giuttari, who actually led the investigation (he was the chief inspector in charge of the case in the 1990′s when the 3 monsters were arrested) and had more access to the evidence than Spezi?

    His book in Italian is called: Il mostro. Anatomia di un’indagine (The Monster. Anatomy of an investigation), and frankly I don’t know if there is an English version out there.

    I’ve seen on Italian blogs that it’s a very good book also, with lots of insights. Although Florentines are still divided on the Monster.

    Most people believe that the 3 of them were not alone. Most still believe it was a doctor who did the ablation of the female parts from the victims (in the 1980′s in Florence practically all MD’s were put under investigation).

    Spezi’s theory of the lone Sardinian makes no sense, especially considering that one of the 3 convicted monsters confessed to the crimes, implicated the other 2, and gave enough details to believe that the 3 of them were certainly guilty.

    But on the theory of the commissioning satanic sect, the jury is still out, although most Florentines think that Mignini was on the right path. Unfortunately his Florentine colleagues didn’t agree with him and there was certainly friction between the two prosecutors’ offices (Florence in charge of the MOF and Perugia in charge of the Narducci’s case). In the end he overstepped his authority when he tried to investigate the police officials in Florence and got in trouble for it.

    But that case has nothing to do with Amanda. He wasn’t even present when the police first heard her and she implicated Lumumba. So blaming Mignini for that false accusation is a weak excuse that nobody is going to buy (except for John Winters, Mary Ho, Phallus B and few others who don’t count for $hit)

  • PhanuelB

    ColonelHall:

    Does your copy of “the Monster of Florence” have the discussion in the Afterword on pages 325-327 of Spezi’s meeting with Francesca Bene?

    What is your opinion on that?

  • billyryan

    enzo zoff would you ever do the world a favour learn to speak english or else shut to fuck up.I am wondering which of ye is the biggest thug rude guede who stabbed a beautiful girl left her dying on the floor while he went dancing,done a deal with another thug mignini to destroy two more familys who are as innocent in this case as merridith.birds of a feather between them two.then “enzo zoff”and “jim said”who use a photograph of amanda and fantasise about her crying in a cell in italy to wank every night,i think the only way ye can manage this is yere vision of innocence tears and beauty,like i said i cant make up my mind which of the four of ye is the sickest thug.i think i will leave it up to mary H GARY OR JOHN WINTERS to solve my dilemma

  • Mary H.

    colnelhall, I believe the focus on Doug Preston was because of the intimidating interrogation he underwent with Mignini. He wanted people to know that Amanda was probably threatened during her interrogation. He said something about how, if his interrogation frightened him into immediately leaving the country, he couldn’t imagine Amanda being able to withstand the pressure of hers.

  • colonelhall

    Johnny Winters -”his motives for doing the tap were criminal and for personal gain,”

    I have started to read The Moster Of Florence, by that well-known Amanda Knox supporter D.Preston. I’ve got to admit, it’s a cracking good read. What has come our of it so far is that it is one hell of a complicated case. As Preston points out, it is a case that will go on to be the ruin of many a person. Right from the start, there are all sorts of theories going about that are rooted in the dark history of Florence.

    I know you love this Johnny, so I’ll say it again “It looks as if Mignini overstepped the mark” as a result, he succumbed to the fate of others, who have tried to solve this great mystery. I fail to see how he was wire tapping for personal gain.

    In any case, the Monster Of Florence mystery ( going back to 1968 ) has absolutely nothing to do with the Knox case. People are just using it out of desperation.

  • John Winters

    Enzo says:

    ”Where is the love man?”

    Enzo if you knew anything about that subject, we wouldn’t be having this discussion because the case wouldn’t exist.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John Winters:

    ‘here’s Joooohhhnnnyyyy’

    buddy, buddy, buddy, … come on now …

    where is the love, man?

    In the words of my 13 year old: ‘whatever!’

    “Rather like Tarzan realising for the first time that it is his own reflection he is watching in the mirror of the rockpool.”

    you got this part right at least.

    …. and, I’m taking my meds, ok?

    just keep the therapy coming; I think it’s really helping me. Thanks.

    dixi

  • John Winters

    Enzoff:

    ”Furthermore, i DO feel embarrassment; you are right, but it’s at your posts which are so ridiculously contradictory and at times plain stupid that I shudder that people like you exist.”

    This is a classic stage in your therapy. Here you are showing real signs of progress and grasping certain concepts which are pertinent to your case. However, you are continuing to disseminate the material of these concepts and project them onto other people:

    ”Yet, you and John ‘here’s Jooohhhnnnyyy’ Winters are first, second and last to challenge the DNA findings.”

    The next thing we have to do therefore, is encourage you to internalise these ideas about embarrassment and shuddering and realise that their genesis, activation, and consequences are best off retained within your good self and all that that entails. Rather like Tarzan realising for the first time that it is his own reflection he is watching in the mirror of the rockpool.

  • John Winters

    Enzoff

    ”Was he inside the law?; was what he did legal?; was it an ‘abuse’ or a necessity to unearth the truth? could he have attained the writs from the very Prosecutor he was investigating?”

    The way your mind bends fallacy to attain the image of truth is close to what we here in the West diagnose as delusional schizophrenia. It is common among products of in-breeding.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    you cited:

    “Presiding Judge Giancarlo Massei, rejecting the defense bid, ruled the trial should go on. He said that defense consultants were present when the DNA tests were carried out by forensic experts and that relevant documents had been made available a month and a half ago, suggesting that defense had enough time to review the findings.”

    The Associated Press ; By Marta Falconi; Monday, September 14, 2009

    ==================================================

    Mary H, listen, honey and listen well: as many have posted, – me included, – ultimately and inevitably, the final decision, the final say and any chance of a release for K/S through the appeal process will rest with a handful of learned judges.

    That’s a fact!

    So you and I can debate all of this, and in the end, it will mean swat to K/S appeal process.

    But here’s the difference between you and I; I know this whereas you go on as if the Perugian court is reading your every word.

    Furthermore, i DO feel embarrassment; you are right, but it’s at your posts which are so ridiculously contradictory and at times plain stupid that I shudder that people like you exist.

    The above is a classic example. Take a good look at it, no, not with just one eye, with both.

    What you have PROVED is that the defence where PRESENT at the DNA testing and having the results for over 45 days had sufficient time to review them and challenge them! But, the DEFENCE didn’t.

    ISn’t that what is says?

    Yet, you and John ‘here’s Jooohhhnnnyyy’ Winters are first, second and last to challenge the DNA findings.

    My point is: why WASN’T it done at the time?

    Why are you blaming Mignini, forensic, and every body else that points this out to you.

    Did I agree with the findings? No. Did I disagree, no!

    Similarly, with Mignini, the way you proved that he was corrupt was to cite the fact the HE is suing 11 people for defamation!

    But you KNOW. You KNOW everything about this case to the extent and level of your choosing.

    You’re a bad sport, Mary H. You’re a cheat !

    I am really curious — don’t you feel even the least bit embarrassed – oh yes I do!

    “…about coming across as an alcoholic, coke-sniffing combination of the Three Stooges and a hyperactive 12-year-old?”

    Point me to the coke, PLEASE !

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Enzo, I don’t even know what you’re talking about. When did I say I ever say anything about impeccable, non-biased, independent sites?

    Your questions about providing documentation do not constitute an argument against my statement, “As a general rule, where oh where, Mignini’s supporters cannot produce valid documentation for any of their claims about the case or the trial. They find most of their information on the truejustice website, where it has been edited to support that site’s agenda.”

    Personally, I would find it helpful if the Amanda-haters ever provided any documentation at all. For example, yesterday, you wrote:

    “OK, why wasn’t K/S represented? Why indeed, did they turn down the invitation?”

    You offer no source for your claims. I provided a source for an argument against your claims (The Associated Press ; By Marta Falconi; Monday, September 14, 2009), et voila, the subject was dropped.

    Why are you so resistant to finding reports, citing the sources, analyzing the differences between claims and, especially, staying on task? Instead of ever seriously discussing this very serious case, you bounce and leap around the blogs like a maniacal court jester, shrieking and grinning and calling everyone else idiots.

    I am really curious — don’t you feel even the least bit embarrassed about coming across as an alcoholic, coke-sniffing combination of the Three Stooges and a hyperactive 12-year-old?

  • Enzo Zoff

    @MAry H:

    “Start with Google, enter key words, go from there.”

    done that, been there, got the T-shirt.

    All point to one direction: K/S/G guilty …..

    That’s why i really need your guidance, as we all do, as to where these sites are …

    Surely, you would have folders and folders full of references ….

    Come on Mary H don’t be a pike, don’t be a bad-sport, share with us all your non-biased, independent K/S sites ….

    We’re all counting on you ….

    Cecked the FOA site … great pixs ….

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “A mentally healthy person doesn’t, but Mignini does, because he feels threatened by challenges to his authority more than a mentally healthy person would.”

    I rest my case !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Enzo wrote: “I am totally serious. Please direct me to your sources!”

    Start with Google, enter key words, go from there.

    Enzo wrote: “That’s why there wasn’t a moment’s hesitation in his peers charging him with abuse of power and other meaningless charges!”

    I have a feeling there probably was a moment’s hesitation. I am not following that case, though, so can;t say for sure.

    Enzo wrote: “And as I explained to you before, you don’t sue other people for defamation for dis-agreeing with you.”

    A mentally healthy person doesn’t, but Mignini does, because he feels threatened by challenges to his authority more than a mentally healthy person would.

    P.S. Enzo, you would have more credibility if you didn’t use so many dopey exclamation points.

  • jim

    mary h, i dont wht u talikin about this judge michel report sure talks abot guede’s conviction but it clearly says that number of wounds andthe way body was found its clear thatmore than one killer was involved, also he subjected amanda andhe boyfriend to undergo trial. it also says hat some one came back later at nite to rearrange the crime scene. if u really see with an open mind that guede ‘s story is more in lie with the evidence than the other two liars. guede is not the only one thats implicated but also the other 2 killers in that report. stop making ur own conclusion, but read with an ope mind u will see she is guilty. she is a psycopath killer with a carming personality along with that sick boyfrined who is into violent japanese sex comics.also i read this from her prison diary where she says that “i was cowering in the kitchen with my hands on my hears, i could hear meredith’s scream in my head, it wasnt real just like a dream and i am not sure about the truth”. now doesnt mean anthing to u, that she is trying to play wit words only to baffle people and yet she is showing her guilt indirectly. i can email u the whole content of this if u want. itreally goes to show wnat a 2 faced, multiple personalities amanda is , a real serial killer material

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    you say:

    “The judges all agreed with Mignini for the same reasons, and one more — they didn’t want to be sued for disagreeing with him.”

    Yeah, right!

    That’s why there wasn’t a moment’s hesitation in his peers charging him with abuse of power and other meaningless charges!

    And as I explained to you before, you don’t sue other people for defamation for dis-agreeing with you. I’ve pointed this out to you before.

    Mary H, just as an aside, in the Land Down Under, the worst possibe of human traits that we despise, more anything else, is being a ‘bad-sport’. This is a person that has been clearly been run-out in between 3rd and home base and still complains and lies. Generally, a cheat!

    Mary H, even under the cover of anonimity, you’re a cheat and a despicable one at that …

    you lie, distort, manipulate and spin every conceavable fact put forward that convicts K/S.

    People don’t hate K/S, but frustrated at the dribble [not drivel] that you spurt out, they direct their anger at them.

    Give it a break! In the end the truth will emerge, if you let it.

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    “As a general rule, where oh where, Mignini’s supporters cannot produce valid documentation for any of their claims about the case or the trial. They find most of their information on the truejustice website, where it has been edited to support that site’s agenda.”

    I pride myself in being as best informed as I can possible be, despite you breaking out in laughter at reading this.

    PRAY TELL: from whence do YOU source your impecabble material from?

    I am totally serious. Please direct me to your sources!

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John Winters:

    here’s Joooohhhnnnyyy:

    you say:

    “This is because this wire tap was legal like someone going into a bank and drawing money from their account.”

    That’s right, that’s exactly right. As I have said on munerous times before, there isn’t a skelic of proof that Mignini ‘abused’ his powers in any way in the K/S/G murder case. In addition, he was ghosted by Comodi who is as pure as virgin snow!

    This is my POINT ! Now it’s become yours?

    You then say:

    “That is why the law cannot tolerate even the mildest form of corruption. And that is why Mingin was put on trial.”

    For the first time, I AGREE with you bud !!

    Mignini was put on trial like anyone else and treated as an equal. No quarter given, no quarter asked. When he was found guilty, he said virtually what the Knox’s said, that he was disappointed that he felt he was innocent and that he would appeal.

    All of this under the same legal system that you and Mary H continually denegrate.

    He will have his chance at his appeal in the exact way K/S will; no different! And, mind you the man is a Prosecutor. By the way, he is on the record for stating that there are flaws with the italian legal system as he has come to find out ‘first hand’.

    “Nowdjagettit?”

    No, bud I don’t.

    The only people that do are those that are desperate to argue that because mignini was charged and then convicted of ‘abuse of power’, then the case he argued against K/S/G is void. But why?

    Seriously, why didn’t K/S’s defence team object to his presence?

    Tell me, ‘What did he in the K/S case that was not proper, leaving aside his prior

    I’m pleased that he was found guilty for no other reason than to demonstrate, right or wrongly, that there appears to be no love lost even amongst the judicial college.

    Dear Jesus, imagine if they had found him innocent – the crap and dribble [not drivel] you would have gone on about.

    Lastly, and I know that I’m howling into the wind, the charges were NOT corruption. You seem him as you want, another view is that he had the balls to take on his peers and do what he thought was right.

    Was he inside the law?; was what he did legal?; was it an ‘abuse’ or a necessity to unearth the truth? could he have attained the writs from the very Prosecutor he was investigating?

    I don’t know; and what’s more, it doesn’t matter what I think. The Court has found him guilty and like all convictions that’s the current verdict.

    Although, I haven’t heard Magnini whingeing and whining about his lot.

    Capisci?

    dixi

  • Enzo Zoff

    @where oh where:

    you say:

    “There are several, as I’ve said, who dispute this evidence.”

    Sweetie, there’s your answer !

    Get them to the appeal bench, pronto
    !

    dixi

  • John Winters

    Enzoff says:

    ”They wire-tapped ALL protagonists, including S’s sister who at the time was a lieutenant in the police force.”

    But when they wire-tapped Sollecito’s sister, they had got authorisation from the judge and the court. This is because this wire tap was legal like someone going into a bank and drawing money from their account.

    When Mingin tapped and recorded the private telephone conversations of senior police officers in Florence, he did not seek authority to do this because his motives for doing the tap were criminal and for personal gain, rather like someone walking into a bank and withdrawing money from everyone’s accounts by pointing a gun at the cashier and demanding she hands over their money.

    Corruption is the legal system’s worst enemy. It eats into it and destroys it very quickly in a way that doesn’t have quite so virulent an effect when dealing with corruption in the church or military for example. That is why the law cannot tolerate even the mildest form of corruption. And that is why Mingin was put on trial.

  • John Winters

    Enzoff says:

    ”..what the blazes does Mignini’s prior allegations of abuse of office have to do with Knox?;”

    It’s like this to do with Knox:
    _____________________________________________________
    Mingin comes to trial of Knox. His job is to prosecute her which he does and she is put in prison for 26 years.

    Mingin’s prior: Guilty of tapping and recording the private telephone conversations of senior police officers.
    _______________________________________________________
    Amanda Knox comes to trial wrongly accused of murder. Thanks to someone with serious prior, she is put in prison for 26 years!!

    Amanda Knox’s prior: Citation for playing music too loud at a party.
    _______________________________________________________

    Nowdjagettit?

  • Mary H.

    Since when does people agreeing with each other mean they are making the right decision? The Ku Klux Klan all agree with each other.

    The judges all agreed with each other because they are accustomed to rubber-stamping. The more times they rry a case, the more times they get paid. If an innocent person is convicted, so what? They’ll get out eventually.

    The judges all agreed with Mignini for the same reasons, and one more — they didn’t want to be sued for disagreeing with him.

  • jim

    mr john winter , i dont want to reveal my education, i am sure i much more educated than u. i could be erratic becuz i tye fast. mr wise guys wheredo u get ur source or info about this case? every one has same source at this point, becuz verdict report iscoming in march. its just that everyone has their own ideas about this case. but the truth is that she & her boyfriend had almost 19 judges who looked at their case and reached at the verdict. they are guilty based upon the circumstantial evidences. by the way i am not a gullibe or fool. by the way y wrote this blog u are an arrogant and an asshole

  • Mary H.

    billy ryan wrote: “he has twenty four days now and the eyes of the world are upon him”

    I get the feeling Mignini and the others are very surpised by the reaction of Amanda’s supporters. Mignini has probably never had so many people question his work before, and certainly not question it with scientific challenges.

    The Italians seem to be pretty casual about this whole justice/court business, and with good reason, since, if someone doesn’t like the first trial, they can always get another one, or two.

  • Gary

    IVITTA said
    I wouldn’t have a problem being prosecuted by Mignini. It’s not the prosecuors who decides whether to convict or not, it’s the judges. And this is true also in America.

    Your corect when saying that the prosecutors do not convict; it’s the jury and judges, but it’s the prosecutor who brings forth the evidence that these people decide on guilt or innocence. Now when you have a prosecutor who fabricates evidence and makes up outrageous theories that have no marrit what so ever to them and you have an open system in which the public is subjected to every lie they read in the tabloids of course your going to have a jury that will convict. It was not the judges or jury that brougt this evidence to court it was Magnini. So ultimetely it was him that convicted them. I still would like to know where the irrafutable evidence is and why the scientists are hidding behinde close doors. I would also like to know how they were allowed to use a knife that was not even the murder weapon in court as the weapon and how they were allowed to use a bra clasp that sat for 6 weeks, then moved and finnaly contaminated multiple times. As far as you having no problem with Magnini prosecuting you for a crime you did not commit is a bunch of garbage. What you going to do when all the fabricated and contaminated evidene comes your way? What you going to do when Magnini starts playing the satanic ritual against you? What you going to do when the juey says guilty when your completely innocent? I bet my life that you will start using the fact that he was convicted of all the things pertaining to his job. (Or maybe you will just sit there and do your time and say to yourself I should have listened to everyone about corrupt Magnini).

  • billyryan

    the problem “where oh where” in getting independant dna experts to support the prosecution dna analsis is similar to getting scientests to say the earth is flat or the sun is nearer to the earth than the moon,the amanda haters have no answer to this question.i am just hoping that the convicting judge has a bit of humanity in him and he realises his error,and we might be finally be on the road to justice.he has seen the destruction this miscarriage of justice brought to these two familys up close and personal.he has twenty four days now and the eyes of the world are upon him.

  • Mary H.

    “Presiding Judge Giancarlo Massei, rejecting the defense bid, ruled the trial should go on. He said that defense consultants were present when the DNA tests were carried out by forensic experts and that relevant documents had been made available a month and a half ago, suggesting that defense had enough time to review the findings.”

    The Associated Press ; By Marta Falconi; Monday, September 14, 2009

  • Where oh where?

    Enzo Zoff”you say:

    “But I haven’t found a single article by a DNA expert from anywhere else in the world, including Italy, who has put their stamp of approval on this evidence. Why not?”

    probably, because it’s not convenient for you.

    Unlike, the US, italian law dictates that the defence has every right to be present at the forensic analysis.

    OK, why wasn’t K/S represented? Why indeed, did they turn down the invitation?

    This is the critical question, isn’t it?

    Perhaps K/S’s lawyers can answer that for you.

    dixi”

    Enzo, dear, you answered my question with several questions.

    I’ll answer as best I can: I don’t know why K/S lawyers weren’t present.

    But you could make it convenient for me to find any DNA expert anywhere in the world, including Italy, who has come forward and put their stamp of approval on this evidence.

    There are several, as I’ve said, who dispute this evidence.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @where oh where:

    you say:

    “But I haven’t found a single article by a DNA expert from anywhere else in the world, including Italy, who has put their stamp of approval on this evidence. Why not?”

    probably, because it’s not convenient for you.

    Unlike, the US, italian law dictates that the defence has every right to be present at the forensic analysis.

    OK, why wasn’t K/S represented? Why indeed, did they turn down the invitation?

    This is the critical question, isn’t it?

    Perhaps K/S’s lawyers can answer that for you.

    dixi

  • Mary H.

    Enzo wrote: “I know: advise them of what I’m doing and get them to get lawyers BEFORE I have established a case against them !!!”

    Italian law requires that once a witness becomes a suspect, he or she must be provided with an attorney. If the police had established cases against Amanda, Raffaele before they interrogated them, then they were required to provide them with attorneys at their interrogations.

    No doubt one reason this law was enacted was to prevent suspects from incriminating themselves during interrogations, which is exactly what happened to Amanda and Raffaele.

    Without the information they had collected on Amanda, Raffaele and Lumumba, the police wouldn’t even have known what questions to ask. Obviously they asked questions that led in the direction of what they wanted to establish. If Amanda and Raffaele were simply witnesses, as the police claim, then they should have been allowed to just give their testimony (which, incidentally they had already done over the course of the past four day), and leave.

    The interrogations were set up to get Amanda nad Raffaele to fulfill the police’s expectations and to arrest Amanda and Raffaele.

    And Ivsitia, I didn’t say the police tapped Lumumba’s phone.

  • PhanuelB

    WhereOhWhere:

    You are correct that courts shouldn’t be looking over their shoulders or considering what is said outside of court.

    But they better understand that they have an obligation to make public anything and everything that occurred in that trial save for matters legitimately sealed.

    The problem is that the world is coming in to see for themselves if justice was done and we don’t have what we need in front of us. As I understand it, journalists can attend the trial and view court documents, but they can’t publish any of those documents. The result is that so much here is just second or third hand information.

    I’ve had it up to here with being asked to take Harry Rag’s word for it that she said this or that or that it was all voluntary. Italian law should be changed so that there is no prohibition on the publication of the trial record.

  • Where oh where?

    Thank you, Mary, for your explanation. I know what you’re saying is right.

    But I’m not really asking about valid documentation from the prosecution. I understand the lack thereof. I understand what all the “guilters” are doing but I still have to ask again.

    It’s been 2 months since the verdict and I’ve read several articles by or about DNA experts from around the world who have problems with the knife and clasp DNA. They seem to have no issues with putting their names and credentials on these articles. But I haven’t found a single article by a DNA expert from anywhere else in the world, including Italy, who has put their stamp of approval on this evidence. Why not?

    I also perfectly understand that the Italian courts have absolutely no obligation to pay any attention to what these experts in the field of DNA have to say.

    But I can guarantee that in the court of public opinion and in the scientific community, what these experts have to say does matter. And the longer this case goes on, well, suffice it to say, the more the time for these experts to come forward.

    I’m also very curious about you “guilters”. Doesn’t it phase you even a little bit that the knife and clasp DNA has no expert supporters outside the few involved in this case? Not even a single scientist in Italy has come out with an outraged, “how dare you” response to what is being written and said.

  • IVSTITIA

    Mary H.: The police did not tap Lumumba’s phone. They found out that his phone pinged on the cell tower serving Piazza Grimana from the Mobile Phone company. You may not know this, but whenever your cell phone is on it pings on a a cell tower near where you are. If you start driving away from where you are the phone will start pinging in other towers. That’s because cellphones work according to a technology called mushroom technology. The cellphone company can provide your location at any time, with pretty good accuracy, thanks to that technology. If you don’t want people to know where you’re or where you’re going you should turn your cell phone off. Incidentally that’s what Raffaele and Amanda did on Nov. 1 at approx. 20:42.

    Gary: “As far as the 2 year sentence being suspended that’s great, but do you think that Magini should be allowed to keep his job?”
    The law says he’s still innocent and the suspended sentence would anyway apply to the interdiction from holding public office. There is nothing in the law that could prevent him from continuing in his current position. Consider however that is work with Amanda is done, since his office is not competent for arguing appeals. Therefore what difference would it make if he quitted today?

    Gary: I wouldn’t have a problem being prosecuted by Mignini. It’s not the prosecuors who decides whether to convict or not, it’s the judges. And this is true also in America. If his case has no merit, he won’t win the case.

    Gary wrote: “As far as the U.S. President sending the marine core to invade Italy that’s the most ignorant thing I have heard out of your mouth so far”
    I agree with you, it is an ignorant thing to say. To think that Obama would send troops to invade Italy, a democratic nation member of the EU and NATO ally, in order to liberate Amanda is ridiculous, but that’s exactly what Mr. John Winters said in another blog, and that’s why I made that comment. If Amanda is convicted nothing would be done by the US Government. The US would not want to ruin relations with an ally, considering also that there have been other instances where Americans have escaped justice in Italy (26 CIA agents who kidnapped a person as part of a rendition program, one US pilot who was flying way below the permitted altitude and killed 20 European skiers in the Alps, a US soldier who killed an Italian official in Baghdad). There are also instances of Italians widely believed to be wrongly incarcerated in the US, the most famous right now is Carlo Parlanti. Did you see the Italian government complaining or even mentioning to the US or Californian authorities about that? Clearly not!
    Governments tend to stay out of judicial matters when they happen in other democratic nations. That’s because the judiciary both in Italy and the US is supposed to be independent from political intervention.

    Regarding the rest of what you wrote, I don’t care to debate the evidence anymore, it’s kind of pointless. It’s like having a Republican and a Democrat debate. They’ll still remain a Republican and a Democrat at the end of the conversation. I’d rather let the judges decide.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John Winters:

    here’s Joooohhhnnnyyy!

    “The fact is you, as the Perugia police, did ILLEGALLY tap and record the private phone calls of senior police officers.”

    Bud, build a bridge and get over it !!!

    Firstly, what the blazes does Mignini’s prior allegations of abuse of office have to do with Knox?; it wold ONLY have relevance if he had been committed the same, but he didn’t !!!

    So how does the fact that he didn’t make K/S any more innocent or less guilty?

    And anyone and everyone with an atom of objectivity could see what the real objective was behind Mignini’s abuse; except you Preston and Mary H who hang on to this as a desperate attempt to link a prior case to another.

    They wire-tapped ALL protagonists, including S’s sister who at the time was a lieutenant in the police force. She was ‘ caught ‘ admitting that she was going to tamper with evidence. She was sacked and now faces trial.

    So much for your anti-american sentiment ……

    grow-up. Really, just grow up, you idiot.

    dixi

  • Gary

    Mary: Thank You. I couldn’t have said it better myself. (Especially about Magini’s conviction being 100% relevant to the Knock case.
    IVSTITIA: You must be from Italy! As far as the 2 year sentence being suspended that’s great, but do you think that Magini should be allowed to keep his job? Also I have been waiting patiently for your answer as to would you want Magini prosecuting you in a case if you were innocent? (Answer the question and stop ignoring it) I know why you’re not answering it because your answer would be no; and for good reason. In fact I don’t think you would want that guy prosecuting you even if you were guilty of a crime seeing that he would make up evidence to make his case better.
    Let’s take a poll here. Who would want Magini prosecuting them for a crime they did not commit? (I know that no one would want to be prosecuted by any one for a crime they did not commit, but the question is pertaining to Magini)
    This whole case and all the evidence presented in it was a total farce and we all know it. Sure you can say a jury convicted them and that should be respected. Yes I agree with that to a point. This is only if you have irrefutable evidence (Which they did not), you have a prosecutor that at the time of the trial was not under indictment for abuse of his job (Huge red flag that this man is up to no good), and you don’t have every single juror being plagued by the media and the rest of the country to convict over made up stories published in the tabloid.
    IVSTITIA: As far as the U.S. President sending the marine core to invade Italy that’s the most ignorant thing I have heard out of your mouth so far. Trust me if the president wanted to send troops over to invade Italy the place would be a pile of rubble when we got done. (Well that’s just plain stupid anyways seeing that no one would go to war over the wrongful incarceration of one person from America).
    Anyways I would love to see the irrefutable evidence they have. And for that matter I would love to know what the motive was (No way this was a satanic ritual). Why on earth would a bright college student who had everything going for her say to herself let’s mimic the Halloween satanic ritual and rape and murder my roommate and best friend. In fact let’s not only rape and murder her; let’s be real smart about it and clean up only our DNA from the crime scene and leave Gueda’s all over the place. Then we will take the knife that we murdered her with and put it back in the drawer at Solechitto’s house (They will never look there for it). The knife scenario is only feasible if it was the real murder weapon; which it was not. Opps!!!! After all the killing and raping and cleaning up they forgot the bra clasp.
    Face it the bra clasp evidence is garbage for many of reasons. (And not just because it was left there for 6 weeks, moved and contaminated by multiple people) The knife evidence (Well that speaks for itself). Amanda’s DNA being all over the house (Well that speaks for itself also seeing she lived there.) Where is the evidence of Amanda’s DNA left during the commission of the crime? Gueda’s is there and has been proven to have been left there during the crime, but where is Amanda’s? Where are all these experts that are so convinced of her guilt that you are saying they are not going to put their reputations on the line (WHAT??????????????????????) Put their reputations on the line for what? Why because they can’t back up their claims therefore it will make them look stupid and their testimony garbage.
    Give it up because no matter what you say or anyone else that is against Amanda and Rafaelle says you all know that these two are totally innocent and that the Italian justice system has been put to shame by all of this. If you want to make a bet as to the appeal let’s do it. Now that we have the freak out of the way and everything he did to put Amanda behind bars will be under question should make this a guarantee win. As far as I’m concerned it’s Magini who is the stupid one because he just blew his whole case against Amanda and Rafaellle. Thanks Magini. (Have fun in hell)

  • John Winters

    ”So what do I do, as investigators of a crime surveilling suspects?
    I know: advise them of what I’m doing and get them to get lawyers BEFORE I have established a case against them !!!”

    The fact is you, as the Perugia police, did ILLEGALLY tap and record the private phone calls of senior police officers.
    A chief prosecutor found guilty of committing a serious offense like this was hardly going to advise anyone to get a lawyer. He doesn’t want law-abiding people like that around while he’s managing things like violent interrogations.

  • Enzo Zoff

    @Mary H:

    you say:

    “In fact, with all the tapping and taping and dirt-collecting the police were doing on Amanda, Raffaele and Patrick in the days following the crime, it’s starting to become very clear that the three of them WERE suspects before they went in for their interrogations, and therefore should all have had lawyers, by Italian law.”

    The only thing that’s become very clear is your idiocy.

    Let me see now, I want to this clear in my mind; I, the Police, find a person to be a SUSPECT – that is, I think that person might have done it, but I’m not sure yet and I’m in the process of collating evidence in whatever form. I have my suspicions about that person, so I have that person observed and surveilled in order to get and firm up my evidence. I don’t want to alert the suspect to what I’m doing, otherwise it would defeat the purpose of my surveillance.

    So what do I do, as investigators of a crime surveilling suspects?

    I know: advise them of what I’m doing and get them to get lawyers BEFORE I have established a case against them !!!

    Mary H: too many Pink Panther DVDs, honey!

    dixi

    I

  • Mary H.

    Ivstitia wrote: “And leave Mignini alone, his trial case has nothing to do with the kercher case.”

    You may think it has nothing to do with the Kercher case, but most observers think it has everything to do with Mignini’s credibility and his proclivity to abuse his office. Naturally, that plays into how they think he handled the Kercher case.

    And Ivsitia wrote: “Let’s not forget that Amanda’s interrogation when she made the name of Lumumba occurred before he was even present.”

    But just last week, Ivsitia, you wrote this:

    “Add also that the police had evidence that Lumumba’s cell phone had pinged on the cell tower serving Piazza Grimana, and that Lumumba had changed phones one or two days after the murder (and therefore that fact raised suspicions). The phones was a problem for Lumumba even after his release. In fact although the Judge didn’t have enough elements for his detention he was still kept in the “registro degli indagati” (suspected register) for a little while longer after his release.”

    All that surveillance sounds like it has a lot more to do with the police and the prosecution than it has to do with Amanda’s accusation.

    In fact, with all the tapping and taping and dirt-collecting the police were doing on Amanda, Raffaele and Patrick in the days following the crime, it’s starting to become very clear that the three of them WERE suspects before they went in for their interrogations, and therefore should all have had lawyers, by Italian law.

  • IVSTITIA

    The crime of which Mignini was tried does not qualify for cautionary (preventative) detention.

    Even if convicted all the way through the appeals, according to the Italian law, any conviction of less than 2 years is automatically suspended and is not served if the defendant has no prior criminal record.

    Obviously no judge would put in jail a defendant before the trial when he knows damn well, that, even if convicted with a definitive sentence, he or she will not need to go to prison.

    I suggest that you guys limit your discussion to the evidence and not to the legal procedures existing in Italy, because you obviously cannot debate matters of which you have zero, nada, zilch, nessun, knowledge.

    And leave Mignini alone, his trial case has nothing to do with the kercher case. Let’s not forget that Amanda’s interrogation when she made the name of Lumumba occurred before he was even present. Therefore your attempt to portray Mignini as a Gestapo officer who tortured Amanda will not fly outside of this blog, certainly not in an Italian court. Sorry to disappoint you, but Mignini’s trial will play no role whatsoever in the appeal (Mignini won’t even be part of it).

    Get ready to see Amanda’s conviction confirmed in appeal. Everything is possible but a conviction, maybe with a lower sentence, is the most likely scenario in appeal.

    And John! If that happens, I can guarantee you that your President will send no Marine Corps to invade Italy. Count on that one!

  • Enzo Zoff

    @John Winters:

    here’s Jooohhhnnnyyyy, again:

    you say:

    “”Why are there no independent experts out there willing to come forward with a rebutt